The easiest way to differentiate between a pre-title and a post-title SAI built Shelby is, could you purchase the completed car new off the dealer showroom floor.
2007-08 Shelby GT and 2008-09 KR the answers is yes, these cars were built pre-title, meaning that the finished car could be purchased new from the dealership.
2011-13 GT350, SuperSnakes, Terlingua, GTS, etc the answer is no, these cars were built as post-title, meaning that you could not walk into your Ford dealership and purchase the completed car new off the showroom floor.
GT-H cars as mentioned technically fall in between pre & post title but are generally considered a pre-title car.
And before anyone posts that they've seen a GT350 or Super Snake on the showroom floor with "no miles" on it those cars were technically used and are indeed post-title.
Also keep in mind that SAI is an automobile manufacturer and for them to sell a GT350 or Super Snake as a pre-title car would require extensive Federaly required testing, ie crash and emission testing.
Post-title cars do not have nor require this type of testing.
The back story. The Feds got involved with aftermarket companies modifying vehicles. Hennessy and Saleen were their main targets. Their main thrust was toward performance changes that affected the emissions. Also they looked at crash worthiness of add on spoilers, hood changes, etc. They went so far as to seize some cars from dealers. The federal law was those types of changes could not be made to a new car before it's first sale to the public (or even after but that was too hard to keep track of). That led to the post title business. You owned the car and could get it modified to your choosing. It was then between you and the feds or state if your changes were legal.
The Hertz cars got changes straight out of the Ford Motorsport catalog (Like the Shelby GT had). Those had been certified by Ford with the EPA so no violation occurred. In reality Hertz probably owned all their cars before they hit Shelby's for the mods. Also Hertz would not allow any uncertified mods which could affect their ability to resell them.
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on September 02, 2024, 06:38:18 PMThe back story. The Feds got involved with aftermarket companies modifying vehicles. Hennessy and Saleen were their main targets. Their main thrust was toward performance changes that affected the emissions. Also they looked at crash worthiness of add on spoilers, hood changes, etc. They went so far as to seize some cars from dealers. The federal law was those types of changes could not be made to a new car before it's first sale to the public (or even after but that was too hard to keep track of). That led to the post title business. You owned the car and could get it modified to your choosing. It was then between you and the feds or state if your changes were legal.
The Hertz cars got changes straight out of the Ford Motorsport catalog (Like the Shelby GT had). Those had been certified by Ford with the EPA so no violation occurred. In reality Hertz probably owned all their cars before they hit Shelby's for the mods. Also Hertz would not allow any uncertified mods which could affect their ability to resell them.
Hertz was smart at one time. Operative word "was." See Tesla "investment" for the rest of the story.
More discussions on the Hertz GT-H Post Title OR Pre-Title - Shelby GT-H
https://forums.shelby.com/topic/62669-hertz-gt-h-post-title-or-pre-title/
BUT, couldn't a Dealer take a Car off their Showroom Floor BEFORE selling it and sent it to Shelby to be transformed into a Shelby GT or a Super Snake and then put it back on their Showroom Floor and then sell it to the First Time Buyer? After all, I am told that the Dealerships own the New Cars on their Lots but are not considered Used.
Quote from: tesgt350 on September 03, 2024, 01:06:54 PMBUT, couldn't a Dealer take a Car off their Showroom Floor BEFORE selling it and sent it to Shelby to be transformed into a Shelby GT or a Super Snake and then put it back on their Showroom Floor and then sell it to the First Time Buyer? After all, I am told that the Dealerships own the New Cars on their Lots but are not considered Used.
NO - the fed rule refer to modifications before the car is sold at retail and registered. While the cars on on the lot they are under the MSO (Manufacturer Statement of Origin) and have not been titled.
Quote from: FL SAAC on September 03, 2024, 12:13:47 PMMore discussions on the Hertz GT-H Post Title OR Pre-Title - Shelby GT-H
https://forums.shelby.com/topic/62669-hertz-gt-h-post-title-or-pre-title/
This confirms that I thought Hertz owned the cars prior to them being at SA. The pre/post problem does not exist for these cars since no UNapproved EPA changes were made to the emissions system. ANY tuner company today (SA, Saleen, etc) can offer a pre title package to dealers today - as long a ZERO changes are made that will affect to emissions.
Here is the latest I could find on the Clean Air Act violations - that caused the pre/post debate. Read the Competition Only section on their enforcement choices. https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/documents/tamperinganddefeatdevices-enfalert.pdf
Only adding to the mystique of these extremely unique C.S.M. numbered vehicles;
Black Magic Cars
Rent-A-Racers
The Legends
Cult Cars
The Rentals
Milestone Cars
The Black & Gold Crew
Shelby Hertz
The Greatest Rental Cars In History
Holy Grail Cars
The Legend Lives On !
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on September 03, 2024, 03:30:31 PMQuote from:
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This confirms that I thought Hertz owned the cars prior to them being at SA. The pre/post problem does not exist for these cars since no UNapproved EPA changes were made to the emissions system. ANY tuner company today (SA, Saleen, etc) can offer a pre title package to dealers today - as long a ZERO changes are made that will affect to emissions.
Here is the latest I could find on the Clean Air Act violations - that caused the pre/post debate. Read the Competition Only section on their enforcement choices. https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2020-12/documents/tamperinganddefeatdevices-enfalert.pdf