Have any of you guys had any dealings with David Lee Larson of Larson MasterWorks LLC out of Velva, ND.?
I see he's had some Ford parts for sale previously on face book & ebay (maybe never listed here?), just wondering if so, what experience you might have had?
Thanks,
Scott.
Let me re-phrase.... I was involved with the sale of these parts however, I do not know how he is representing them.
Well, I'm going to assume that David Larson of Larson MasterWorks of Velva N.D. hasn't engaged this group as of yet. :-\
But, I would like to convey "my experience", should it provide aid to others:
Mr. Larson had listed for sale on ebay, an intake manifold, which in the verbiage it stated more than once that it was cast of "magnesium". I emailed and later spoke to him on the telephone, questioning how he had determined that this actually was magnesium, as mag. certainly can look quite like aluminum and that is the material that one would expect. In all communications he assured me that he was quite familiar with magnesium, knew the difference between that and aluminum, this along with other examples of items cast of magnesium at his shop; "this manifold is magnesium without a doubt" and stated as absolutely, positively and with no reservations.
A 'deal' is struck based on this understanding as conveyed to me by him. The only problem is that when I received the item, in hand, I had my doubts, so I chemical tested the material.........nope, it's not magnesium!
When I contacted him with this information, his response was, and if I may just copy/paste for accuracy:
"I have a hard time believing that you truly trusted I was right about the intake being magnesium."
"......you need to do your due diligence to investigate what exactly you are buying to make sure you get exactly what you are paying for."
"......you could have easily prevented this debate with specific terms before confirming the purchase. You could have said "I'm going to test it when it arrives. If it's magnesium then it's $xxxx; if it's aluminum then it's $xxxx."
"I believe you still paid less than it is worth even if it is aluminum."
"This is a mistake by both parties chalked up to clumsiness. I wasn't scrupulous enough researching the metal, and you were sloppy with your due diligence. No harm; no foul. It is what it is. Live and learn."
"I think we have both spent enough time and stress on this."
Bottom line: Claimed to be "magnesium", paid the Seller for such, but it isn't! With a single response the Seller chooses to just "ghost" me! >:(
Of course it's handy that he chooses to ignore the greater monetary value as touted and paid for which he chooses to retain, this versus the actual value of that received! Bottom line: Claimed to be "magnesium", paid the Seller for such, but it isn't! With a single response Mr. Larson chooses to just "ghost" me! .:(
So this, in his own words, of "my" experience from dealing with this person. :o
And yes, the old rule of "CAVEAT EMPTOR" certainly applies, just more so for some! :)
Scott.
Quote from: pbf777 on February 25, 2025, 02:24:52 PMWell, I'm going to assume that David Lawson of Lawson MasterWorks of Velva N.D. hasn't engaged this group as of yet. :-\
But, I would like to convey "my experience", should it provide aid to others:
Mr. Lawson had listed for sale on ebay, an intake manifold, which in the verbiage it stated more than once that it was cast of "magnesium". I emailed and later spoke to him on the telephone, questioning how he had determined that this actually was magnesium, as mag. certainly can look quite like aluminum and that is the material that one would expect. In all communications he assured me that he was quite familiar with magnesium, knew the difference between that and aluminum, this along with other examples of items cast of magnesium at his shop; "this manifold is magnesium without a doubt" and stated as absolutely, positively and with no reservations.
A 'deal' is struck based on this understanding as conveyed to me by him. The only problem is that when I received the item, in hand, I had my doubts, so I chemical tested the material.........nope, it's not magnesium!
When I contacted him with this information, his response was, and if I may just copy/paste for accuracy:
"I have a hard time believing that you truly trusted I was right about the intake being magnesium."
"......you need to do your due diligence to investigate what exactly you are buying to make sure you get exactly what you are paying for."
"......you could have easily prevented this debate with specific terms before confirming the purchase. You could have said "I'm going to test it when it arrives. If it's magnesium then it's $xxxx; if it's aluminum then it's $xxxx."
"I believe you still paid less than it is worth even if it is aluminum."
"I think we have both spent enough time and stress on this."
Bottom line: Claimed to be "magnesium", paid the Seller for such, but it isn't! With a single response the Seller chooses to just "ghost" me!
So this, in his own words, of "my" experience from dealing with this person.
And yes, the old rule of "CAVEAT EMPTOR" certainly applies, just more so for some!
Scott.
WOW, he basically swears it's "Magnesium" LYING to you the whole time and then Blames YOU that it's NOT? Wow, sorry to hear that.
Hopefully you paid with a credit card.
Provide the c.c. with your correspondence to the company
Should be an easy charge back.
Best of luck
Quote from: pbf777 on February 25, 2025, 02:24:52 PMWell, I'm going to assume that David Lawson of Lawson MasterWorks of Velva N.D. hasn't engaged this group as of yet. :-\
But, I would like to convey "my experience", should it provide aid to others:
Mr. Lawson had listed for sale on ebay, an intake manifold, which in the verbiage it stated more than once that it was cast of "magnesium". I emailed and later spoke to him on the telephone, questioning how he had determined that this actually was magnesium, as mag. certainly can look quite like aluminum and that is the material that one would expect. In all communications he assured me that he was quite familiar with magnesium, knew the difference between that and aluminum, this along with other examples of items cast of magnesium at his shop; "this manifold is magnesium without a doubt" and stated as absolutely, positively and with no reservations.
A 'deal' is struck based on this understanding as conveyed to me by him. The only problem is that when I received the item, in hand, I had my doubts, so I chemical tested the material.........nope, it's not magnesium!
When I contacted him with this information, his response was, and if I may just copy/paste for accuracy:
"I have a hard time believing that you truly trusted I was right about the intake being magnesium."
"......you need to do your due diligence to investigate what exactly you are buying to make sure you get exactly what you are paying for."
"......you could have easily prevented this debate with specific terms before confirming the purchase. You could have said "I'm going to test it when it arrives. If it's magnesium then it's $xxxx; if it's aluminum then it's $xxxx."
"I believe you still paid less than it is worth even if it is aluminum."
"I think we have both spent enough time and stress on this."
Bottom line: Claimed to be "magnesium", paid the Seller for such, but it isn't! With a single response the Seller chooses to just "ghost" me!
So this, in his own words, of "my" experience from dealing with this person.
And yes, the old rule of "CAVEAT EMPTOR" certainly applies, just more so for some!
Scott.
Do you have a link to the auction?
So this is Larson, not Lawson..???
Pat
J D Larson goes by "fordautolite" on eBay.
Doesnt sound the same as info given
I do see a webpage where he says he works at all classic mustangs,
Maybe a relative?
It would be good to get the name correct 😉
His son who does the restoration work if I understand correctly.
Quote from: azdriver on February 25, 2025, 05:48:45 PMSo this is Larson, not Lawson..???
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 25, 2025, 06:04:25 PMJ D Larson goes by "fordautolite" on eBay.
I do see a webpage where he says he works at all classic mustangs,
Maybe a relative?
It would be good to get the name correct 😉
Yes, my mistake it is "Larson"! :-[
ebay name utilized: "6172839405" (not his phone number)
It's just an avoidance syndrome effect acting upon my memory! >:(
And it is the "son". In my last 'attempted' communication I asked "if he had forwarded any of this action to his parents (wondering if they might have vested interests in "Larson MasterWorks"), and whether they approved?" Or just maybe I was trying to answer the question in curiosity of perhaps "how far had the apple fallen from the tree". ::)
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 25, 2025, 04:36:22 PMDo you have a link to the auction?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/296704762333
It's not a big enough deal to where I feel I really need to go to North Dakota, especially right now considering the weather conditions, particularly me being from Florida ("Cracker" ;D ), this in order to rectify the situation (though I do feel more of that is what is needed these days), but I do think one should "reap what you sow", at least to some degree. And one should be honest enough in their actions at least to point where they aren't ashamed to have the "dirty laundry aired in public" for all to see! :o
But my purpose at this point is solely to aid others here, in providing 'my' experience. :)
Scott.
Going through ebay based on the inaccurate description is your recourse. They claim a money back guarantee
It looks like his phone is in the description
Call his daddy too , he sells a lot of stuff. Its not good for business
Ask a future seller of a magnesium piece to put some white vinegar on their "mag piece".
fizz = magnesium, no fiz= aluminum
In my opinion it in no way looks like any magnesium I've seen. Looking at the machined areas it totally looks like aluminum to me. Sorry you got taken. What were you going to do with it?
Roy
Quote from: TA Coupe on February 26, 2025, 09:27:55 AMIn my opinion it in no way looks like any magnesium I've seen. Looking at the machined areas it totally looks like aluminum to me.
I have worked (machined) with magnesium materials and have several pieces collected over the years hanging about and as I stated previously, magnesium castings can look very much like aluminum. This particularly when first cast, depending on specific alloys and initial exposure in the casting process, or as machined; close enough that it can surly prove difficult to discern positively though just typical photographs. It is mostly the environmental exposure over time and the different oxidation processes (Al. vs. Mg.) which then make particularly mag. distinguishable to the eye.
I related this to Mr Larson and that I was suspect of whether it actually was mag. and his response was that this part being N.O.S. with no exposure and having been stored in the south western region of the country (dry) is why it hadn't turned the rather dark grey oxidized color as typically witnessed of mag. And yes this is possible, as for example I bought a set of mag. Mini-Lite wheels many years ago, not polished, as cast natural finish that looked pretty much just like this intake manifold, but over the years they have slowly turned to a very dark gray color, as expected being this is Florida. :-\
Quote from: kram350 on February 25, 2025, 08:24:42 PMAsk a future seller of a magnesium piece to put some white vinegar on their "mag piece".
fizz = magnesium, no fiz= aluminum
Yes, and I did suggest that he might attempt a non-destructive chemical test ("destructive" is to take some scrapings and test for its' flammability! :o ), this with readily available home products like "vinegar" (acetic acid, diluted form) or "Root Kill" (copper sulfate, as usually found 98-99%).
In a followup telephone communication he stated that he had tried the vinegar on this piece, but also on another "known" example of mag. for a comparison, with no conclusion garnered in either case. Of course, this isn't a 'good' sign, but this process does also require a certain some of competence in execution: that the surface being tested should be clean of contaminants (particularly oil) and if on particularly the as-cast surface where oxidation has taken place as this insulates the metal, the surface should be abraded to clean "white" metal, otherwise there may be a delay and/or repeated applications required before the anticipated result is had. So as presented, and understanding that in his effort which encompassed a known test reference, the only conclusion that could be garnered was that the testing process must be faulted; i.e. vinegar does age and becomes less acetic in time, the surfaces were not clean, the process was rushed and not given adequate time for reaction, perhaps the person performing the process, who 'was' claiming ignorance in the process, is a numbskull and couldn't find his a$$ with both hands no matter how hard he might try, or of course maybe he's ..............'slick'! :o
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 25, 2025, 07:42:09 PMGoing through ebay based on the inaccurate description is your recourse. They claim a money back guarantee
It looks like his phone is in the description
Well, 'perhaps' unfortunately, the transaction didn't go through "ebay"; the auction had run it's course for a period with no takers, I contacted him through ebay messaging asking what he might be wanting for it, his response was to call the contact phone number on the listing and he'd talk about it with me.
Seems innocent enough, I did have questions that needed to be answered and one generally prefers to talk to the person in order to try to judge their demeanor, not to mention with the greater interaction scammers usually don't put forth this much effort and will often just disappear. And obviously many transactions take place in manors other than though ebay, and this was the process the owner/seller wanted to proceed.
But post this event, I get the impression that with the contact phone number being listed in the auction (against the rules) that the intention may have been to always remove the item from ebay's dominion, the seller avoids the fees, but perhaps more importantly, and particularly if dubious, also any possible recourse through ebay. So the slick "used car salesman" stating "I know what I'm talking about", coupled with my wanting to believe that 'most' people are good ::) , gets the better of me,............. sometimes. :(
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 25, 2025, 07:42:09 PMCall his daddy too , he sells a lot of stuff. Its not good for business
Speaking of which, in my conversation with David Larson he suggested that I should have confidence in this relationship, referencing the "extensive Facebook and on-line store presents"; and yeah, I looked it up: http://www.allclassicmustang.com/; same last name: Larson, same town: Velva, ND., "All Classic Mustang" is referenced on David Larson's Facebook page and he's acknowledged and appears on theirs. Seems reasonable, but..................... :o
But again, the intention on my part here is only to inform others of my experience. :)
Quote from: TA Coupe on February 26, 2025, 09:27:55 AMWhat were you going to do with it?
At least the scenario didn't play out of me getting nothing for my money! It's still a cool piece and they really are a bit rare to find, particularly in this condition. It'll just become another "wall-hangar" with all the rest; I'll just have to console myself that: "It's not that I paid to much, its' just that I'm ahead of the curve"! ::)
Scott.
Quote from: pbf777 on February 26, 2025, 02:07:48 PMQuote from: TA Coupe on February 26, 2025, 09:27:55 AMIn my opinion it in no way looks like any magnesium I've seen. Looking at the machined areas it totally looks like aluminum to me.
I have worked (machined) with magnesium materials and have several pieces collected over the years hanging about and as I stated previously, magnesium castings can look very much like aluminum. This particularly when first cast, depending on specific alloys and initial exposure in the casting process, or as machined; close enough that it can surly prove difficult to discern positively though just typical photographs. It is mostly the environmental exposure over time and the different oxidation processes (Al. vs. Mg.) which then make particularly mag. distinguishable to the eye.
I related this to Mr Larson and that I was suspect of whether it actually was mag. and his response was that this part being N.O.S. with no exposure and having been stored in the south western region of the country (dry) is why it hadn't turned the rather dark grey oxidized color as typically witnessed of mag. And yes this is possible, as for example I bought a set of mag. Mini-Lite wheels many years ago, not polished, as cast natural finish that looked pretty much just like this intake manifold, but over the years they have slowly turned to a very dark gray color, as expected being this is Florida. :-\
Quote from: kram350 on February 25, 2025, 08:24:42 PMAsk a future seller of a magnesium piece to put some white vinegar on their "mag piece".
fizz = magnesium, no fiz= aluminum
Yes, and I did suggest that he might attempt a non-destructive chemical test ("destructive" is to take some scrapings and test for its' flammability! :o ), this with readily available home products like "vinegar" (acetic acid, diluted form) or "Root Kill" (copper sulfate, as usually found 98-99%).
In a followup telephone communication he stated that he had tried the vinegar on this piece, but also on another "known" example of mag. for a comparison, with no conclusion garnered in either case. Of course, this isn't a 'good' sign, but this process does also require a certain some of competence in execution: that the surface being tested should be clean of contaminants (particularly oil) and if on particularly the as-cast surface where oxidation has taken place as this insulates the metal, the surface should be abraded to clean "white" metal, otherwise there may be a delay and/or repeated applications required before the anticipated result is had. So as presented, and understanding that in his effort which encompassed a known test reference, the only conclusion that could be garnered was that the testing process must be faulted; i.e. vinegar does age and becomes less acetic in time, the surfaces were not clean, the process was rushed and not given adequate time for reaction, perhaps the person performing the process, who 'was' claiming ignorance in the process, is a numbskull and couldn't find his a$$ with both hands no matter how hard he might try, or of course maybe he's ..............'slick'! :o
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 25, 2025, 07:42:09 PMGoing through ebay based on the inaccurate description is your recourse. They claim a money back guarantee
It looks like his phone is in the description
Well, 'perhaps' unfortunately, the transaction didn't go through "ebay"; the auction had run it's course for a period with no takers, I contacted him through ebay messaging asking what he might be wanting for it, his response was to call the contact phone number on the listing and he'd talk about it with me.
Seems innocent enough, I did have questions that needed to be answered and one generally prefers to talk to the person in order to try to judge their demeanor, not to mention with the greater interaction scammers usually don't put forth this much effort and will often just disappear. And obviously many transactions take place in manors other than though ebay, and this was the process the owner/seller wanted to proceed.
But post this event, I get the impression that with the contact phone number being listed in the auction (against the rules) that the intention may have been to always remove the item from ebay's dominion, the seller avoids the fees, but perhaps more importantly, and particularly if dubious, also any possible recourse through ebay. So the slick "used car salesman" stating "I know what I'm talking about", coupled with my wanting to believe that 'most' people are good ::) , gets the better of me,............. sometimes. :(
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 25, 2025, 07:42:09 PMCall his daddy too , he sells a lot of stuff. Its not good for business
Speaking of which:
I'm thinking this might be: http://www.allclassicmustang.com/
Same last name: Larson,
Same town: Velva, ND.,
And this "All Classic Mustang" is also referenced on David Larson's Facebook page and he appears on theirs. :-\
But again, the intention on my part here is only to inform others of my experience. :)
Quote from: TA Coupe on February 26, 2025, 09:27:55 AMWhat were you going to do with it?
At least the scenario didn't play out of me getting nothing for my money! It's still a cool piece and they really are a bit rare to find, particularly in this condition. It'll just become another "wall-hangar" with all the rest; I'll just have to console myself that: "It's not that I paid to much, its' just that I'm ahead of the curve"! ::)
Scott.
Scott,
Unfortunately you can not plate aluminum with magnesium. Then you could plate it and put it high up on the wall where nobody could touch it. Allow it to oxidize, and be out of close inspection.
So you are stuck by this guy with a still cool intake that you still probably don't know what it flows, eh?
John
Your right I can't, but I believe magnesium 'can' be plasma-sprayed onto aluminum. :-\
But again, it isn't that big of a deal; "it is what it is" and it's still cool!
It's just more about principals ;) ...........and just the idea that I was had! >:(
As far as for "flow-benching", this is one of the those instances where such testing really still leaves one in the dark, it's that "I.R. thing". But in general, experience has shown that these old style F.I. manifolds exhibit to small of a port cross sectional area and throttle butterfly diameter, not to mention often also present too sharp of a turn into the cylinder head port (this being the case for the "Weber" intakes also), to make any really "big power", that as we know of it today; but on a smaller capacity (289-302) can provide plenty of "giddy up" for a nostalgia application. ;)
Besides, it's just 'cool'! 8)
Scott.
As a recent participant in an ancient artifact discussion here, in fact the antagonist in initiating one, I think this really isn't an issue whether or not it is magnesium.
The reason being that no one is going to represent this intake as the ultimate performance intake of all time so that you can build the ultimate performance engine using it now.
It is "an ancient artifact" and that is the reason it is desirable. Like "King Tut's death mask".
Pricing such items is difficult and speculative at best. "He's got it. You want it." It's only a question of what price you can agree on. If you can't come to an agreement, then it is just made out of "unobtainieum".
An example of this thinking in the case of a Ford 427, which is what I presume we are talking about since this post has no pictures posted. is the "lightweight 427 magnesium intake".
In examining what it is, it has no better perfomance/horsepower potential then the aluminum PI version of itself.
It is ONLY about weight savings BACK IN THE DAY, and really is now, ONLY just about it's novelty and the very small production numbers originally.
If you have one and you want to use it on an engine. Great. It's yours. Do what you want with it.
It is definitely a "horse of a different color" and I'm still fascinated at looking at them, strange as they are. But in the end, "so what"?
I remember looking for a "welder" to repair my C6FE aluminum 427 heads. The "shop" was building "Pro Stock Camaro" chassis back in 1985. He was the only qualified aluminum welder that I could find.
They were using Chevy BB Pro Stock cylinder heads for "door stops", so when I dropped my FORD heads off to them and asked for some kind of receipt, they told me why? Aluminum scrap is only $.23 a pound.
Really? How much are heads for a Mk2B GT40 worth?
Anyway, the value is in the eyes of the beholder. The novelty is in knowing what they belong to. That value is in your head. To a Pro-Stock Camaro builder, they are just worth a couple of bucks in scrap. Especially being FORD parts. I had a slightly different perspective.
I couldn't stay any longer to debate that anyway. The cocaine dust permeating the shop had my head spinning and I had to rest a bit just to find my way back home. After all, it was the '80s?
Quote from: shelbydoug on February 27, 2025, 09:04:43 AMAs a recent participant in an ancient artifact discussion here, in fact the antagonist in initiating one, I think this really isn't an issue whether or not it is magnesium.
The reason being that no one is going to represent this intake as the ultimate performance intake of all time so that you can build the ultimate performance engine using it now.
It is "an ancient artifact" and that is the reason it is desirable. Like "King Tut's death mask".
Pricing such items is difficult and speculative at best. "He's got it. You want it." It's only a question of what price you can agree on. If you can't come to an agreement, then it is just made out of "unobtainieum".
An example of this thinking in the case of a Ford 427, which is what I presume we are talking about since this post has no pictures posted. is the "lightweight 427 magnesium intake".
In examining what it is, it has no better perfomance/horsepower potential then the aluminum PI version of itself.
It is ONLY about weight savings BACK IN THE DAY, and really is now, ONLY just about it's novelty and the very small production numbers originally.
If you have one and you want to use it on an engine. Great. It's yours. Do what you want with it.
It is definitely a "horse of a different color" and I'm still fascinated at looking at them, strange as they are. But in the end, "so what"?
I remember looking for a "welder" to repair my C6FE aluminum 427 heads. The "shop" was building "Pro Stock Camaro" chassis back in 1985. He was the only qualified aluminum welder that I could find.
They were using Chevy BB Pro Stock cylinder heads for "door stops", so when I dropped my FORD heads off to them and asked for some kind of receipt, they told me why? Aluminum scrap is only $.23 a pound.
Really? How much are heads for a Mk2B GT40 worth?
Anyway, the value is in the eyes of the beholder. The novelty is in knowing what they belong to. That value is in your head. To a Pro-Stock Camaro builder, they are just worth a couple of bucks in scrap. Especially being FORD parts. I had a slightly different perspective.
I couldn't stay any longer to debate that anyway. The cocaine dust permeating the shop had my head spinning and I had to rest a bit just to find my way back home. After all, it was the '80s?
Back in the 1980s I was on my way to Casa Grande Arizona from Las Vegas Nevada. An ex-Girlfriend was bartending in a small town in the mountains North of Phoenix I stopped by for conversation and a burger. She knew what my obsession with cars and performance was like and she told me about a man who used to work for FoMoCo in Dearborn that was now a regular. Well he didn't come in that day, so she called him and told him I wanted to meet him, and he invited me out to his place. She went with me and we got to his place.
This guy had retired soon after Ford said no more racing, I won't go into everything that he had stuffed in his barn as the fantastic nature of it all would make the story sound not real. But suffice it to say when he opened the barn I thought "Yes, Wonderful Things!" We spent a good couple of hours just looking at the things in the building. Astonishing NOS performance parts that many of which I had never even heard of. Then we went over to the house and sat in his living room, he had a beer, I had a Coke. There above the fireplace on the mantle was an NOS aluminum Tunnel port head, brand new, I told him that of all the things that I saw that day that cylinder head was the most desirable item in the world to me. It was a pity that he didn't have a pair of them. He got up walked down the hall and came back with it's mate. I was stunned to put it mildly. That is when he told me that he was on the design team for the 427 cylinder heads and participated in the design of the Tunnel port heads. It was one of the things he was proudest of. I told him the only other time I had seen a pair of them was at Randy Scoville's shop in Sun Valley California. Randy had recently received the GT40 MkII for a private owner after it had left the Harrah's collection. (Side note how dumb and short sighted was Harrah's for selling that?!)
After the Coke we traded phone numbers, he said the obligatory, "I'll have my family give you a call about those heads after I die," I told him I hoped that would never happen and I continued on to Casa Grande to do work for my Dad.
Rare Stuff, man do I love it.
Congratulations on your aluminum 289 302 Injection manifold it doesn't matter that it's not aluminum because your right, it's cool!
P.S. don't plasma spray it.
John
I hope he spends the money well, it will cost his reputation a lot more when people are referred to this thread and his eBay listing
You should copy that before it is gone from the site
Quote from: Coralsnake on February 27, 2025, 01:53:09 PMI hope he spends the money well, it will cost his reputation a lot more when people are referred to this thread and his eBay listing
You should copy that before it is gone from the site
Yes! The most valuable thing any of us has is our integrity and reputation.
John
Quote from: JohnSlack on February 27, 2025, 02:24:20 PMYes! The most valuable thing any of us has is our integrity and reputation.
I'm afraid this is not the notion for these newer generations in our society today, and probably this individual exemplifies this current self absorbed demeanor; note the sum of pictures of himself, particularly "selfies" posted on his Facebook page! Not to be sexist, but this behavior is what we back in our day would have only expected from teenage girls! ::)
Scott.
We are reminded daily immaturity and love self are prevalent in many people.