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Pertronix or dual points?

Started by deathsled, May 30, 2024, 09:05:30 PM

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Bob Gaines

Quote from: shelbydoug on June 05, 2024, 03:34:14 PM
Quote from: KR Convertible on June 05, 2024, 01:41:03 PMThat diagram appears to be for use with the sock coil.  If you run the Pertronics coil, you have to run 12 volts to it too, right?

Yes the Petronix coil needs 12v from the ignition switch. The Ford pink wire at the yellow top coil is "6v". It is a resistance wire that reduces the 12v input to 6v at the coil.

If you measure the voltage of the pink at the coil it will likely read more then 6v but not 12v.

That is probably because at some point the pink wire got trimmed back (shortened). That wire tends to develope surface cracks in the insulation and people tend to trim it back for that reason. Likely accounting for a higher voltage reading at the coil.

It is best to run a new wire from the ignition switch, run terminal to the Petronix coil.

That is NOT correct. The Pertronix coil like most after market coils has a internal resistor so it can use a straight 12 volts or work equally well with the lower voltage of the Ford resistor wire in the harness. The Ford coil does not have a internal resistor and so it needs the lower voltage provided by the resistor wire.   
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Bob Gaines

Quote from: KR Convertible on June 05, 2024, 01:41:03 PMThat diagram appears to be for use with the sock coil.  If you run the Pertronics coil, you have to run 12 volts to it too, right?
The Pertronix coil has a internal resistor like most after market coils. They are designed to run on a full 12 volts or the lower voltage the Ford harness resistor wire supplies.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

69 GT350 Vert

I'm not sure if this was said already, but there are 3 series of Pertronix modules; 1, 2, and 3. You have to match the coil to the module series you are using.  I've always used the Pertronix 1 and never had a Pertronix failure in 33 years on two different Shelbys. The 2 & 3 series are more prone to issues from what I have read. 

98SVT - was 06GT

#33
Pertronix wiring instructions for Ford 1281 module. The stock Mustang wiring has a resistance wire (from the switch to the coil). The module wants 12v of clean power. They make oil and epoxy filled coils - the epoxy takes vibration better.

Use figure 3 - run the red wire to the C post in attached image on the ignition switch. You can use a connector like this to avoid splicing wires.
instructions: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0247/6913/4628/files/1281.pdf

Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang, 1998 SVT 32V, 1929 Model A Coupe, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

Bob Gaines

#34
Quote from: 69 GT350 Vert on June 05, 2024, 04:48:28 PMI'm not sure if this was said already, but there are 3 series of Pertronix modules; 1, 2, and 3. You have to match the coil to the module series you are using.  I've always used the Pertronix 1 and never had a Pertronix failure in 33 years on two different Shelbys. The 2 & 3 series are more prone to issues from what I have read. 
I did not want to become the Pertronix answer guy but when I see suspect incorrect information it tends to bother me. I went to the Pertronix website to check about the coil. The ignitor 1  requires a 1.5 ohm or more coil. The ignitor 2 requires a 0.45 ohm coil or more. I must have missed it but I did not find any information on the ignitor 3 . The Ford yellow top coil falls within the Pertronix parameters. That is if it is working properly. Most aftermarket coils fall into compatible category too. I think there is a Pertronix flamethrower coil that will match up with their ignitor modules. Something that has not been mentioned but I was reminded of when going over the installation info is that the spark plug wires must be resistance type wire . Interference from the solid core wire will damage the module. That reminded me also of the urban legend that 289 hipo in a GT350 was supposed to have solid core SX wire. That is false . The regular production GT350 used spark plug resistance wire that was marked "resistance wire" form the factory. This has been documented by vintage factory pictures.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Bob Gaines

#35
I was disappointed to find that Pertronix has changed the shape/style of the epoxy flame thrower epoxy coil. It is now the shape of the typical aftermarket Chevy coil. Previously it was short and stubby closer to the shape of the yellow top coil.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Bob Gaines

Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 05, 2024, 05:31:49 PMPertronix wiring instructions for Ford 1281 module. The stock Mustang wiring has a resistance wire (from the switch to the coil). The module wants 12v of clean power. They make oil and epoxy filled coils - the epoxy takes vibration better.

Use figure 3 - run the red wire to the C post in attached image on the ignition switch. You can use a connector like this to avoid splicing wires.
instructions: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0247/6913/4628/files/1281.pdf


Yes a viable alternative however I think it will extremely hard to make that connections while the ignition switch is in the car. By comparison the bullet connector "Y" adapter mentioned previously should be a much easier connect or disconnect.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

98SVT - was 06GT

Quote from: Bob Gaines on June 05, 2024, 05:55:31 PM
Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on June 05, 2024, 05:31:49 PMPertronix wiring instructions for Ford 1281 module. The stock Mustang wiring has a resistance wire (from the switch to the coil). The module wants 12v of clean power. They make oil and epoxy filled coils - the epoxy takes vibration better.

Use figure 3 - run the red wire to the C post in attached image on the ignition switch. You can use a connector like this to avoid splicing wires.
instructions: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0247/6913/4628/files/1281.pdf


Yes a viable alternative however I think it will extremely hard to make that connections while the ignition switch is in the car. By comparison the bullet connector "Y" adapter mentioned previously should be a much easier connect or disconnect.

As long as you are connecting to the full 12v source before the (pink?) resistance wire you're good. You have to be a little of a contortionist to hook it up with the switch in the dash - but it's also a 5 minute job to r&r the switch.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang, 1998 SVT 32V, 1929 Model A Coupe, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

deathsled

I will look into all of the above. I have been sidelined preparing for a dui bench trial set for tomorrow. Once the proverbial dust settles I can focus more on this Pertronix issue. Thank you for the pics.
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

deathsled

Got a not guilty for the client today.  Now I can decompress and focus more on the Pertronix issue.  Thank you all!
"Low she sits on five spoke wheels
Small block eight so live she feels
There she's parked beside the curb
Engine revving to disturb
She's the princess from his past
Red paint gold stripes damned she's fast"

TA Coupe

If it starts it's streetable.
Overkill is just enough.