67 GT500 oil pump

[shelbydoug]

I'm looking for some owner feedback on the benefits of the stock oil pump v. high volume v high pressure in the 67 428.

I'm thinking that the stock pump is all that should be used in this engine.

With the introduction of th 428cj in '68 Ford experienced a bunch of waranty issues with folks pumping the oil pan dry even with a stock pump and as a result revised the markings on the dip sticks to indicate another quart added to the system.

A high volume pump may stress even that added quantity out further?


What's your feelings on this? At hot idle all a stock pump gives is about 12 psi. That's a little unnerving to me?

[2112]

Very interesting subject. Is there an off the shelf pump that is high pressure normal volume or do you have to custom blueprint one to achieve that?

[gt350hr]

   M57A pump is the "427" pump. High pressure , standard volume. BTW "oil pressure" is actually a measure of the oil the doesn't get into the engine or "back pressure". At ZERO oil "pressure" a pump could STILL be pumping oil into the engine. High volume pumps are a WASTE of money and energy. If you want more oil to enter the engine the oil inlet passages can be opened to "almost" the size of the 427. "Porting work" on the block ( where the filter adaptor bolts on) helps too. A larger pick up tube ( like the obsolete 427 version) should be used instead of the smaller 390-428 pick up tube. Just bolting on a High Volume pump makes some owners comfortable as being some form of "insurance" against engine failure. Little do they know the HV pumps use the same high pressure spring as the M57A pump. If they used the standard spring the oil would be in constant bypass mode which heats the oil causing bigger problems. "I" use an extra capacity pan and large pick up tube on my engines regardless of engine type or size along with a standard volume pump.
   Randy

[JohnHouston]

   M57A pump is the "427" pump. High pressure , standard volume. BTW "oil pressure" is actually a measure of the oil the doesn't get into the engine or "back pressure". At ZERO oil "pressure" a pump could STILL be pumping oil into the engine. High volume pumps are a WASTE of money and energy. If you want more oil to enter the engine the oil inlet passages can be opened to "almost" the size of the 427. "Porting work" on the block ( where the filter adaptor bolts on) helps too. A larger pick up tube ( like the obsolete 427 version) should be used instead of the smaller 390-428 pick up tube. Just bolting on a High Volume pump makes some owners comfortable as being some form of "insurance" against engine failure. Little do they know the HV pumps use the same high pressure spring as the M57A pump. If they used the standard spring the oil would be in constant bypass mode which heats the oil causing bigger problems. "I" use an extra capacity pan and large pick up tube on my engines regardless of engine type or size along with a standard volume pump.
   Randy

I have a couple of 428s, but am still a "newbie" in the Ford world.  That said, every bit of what Randy said is entirely consistent with my knowledge of engines, hot rodders, nervous owners, high volume pumps, relief springs, etc., etc. 

jpd

[roddster]

  What brand is the "M57A" pump?

[gt350hr]

  Melling  but other manufacturers have been known to use the same number.

[shelbydoug]

  What brand is the "M57A" pump?

M is for Melling.

A M57A isn't showing in the listings as available. There is just a generic substitution for it. An old listing does show it for a '66 F150 with a 360. No mention of a 427 application though? I'm wondering if the stock oil pumps are "upgraded" to the 427 specifics? What is the difference with that pump v the others?

Also, I can't find reference to a larger diameter pickup tube assembly anywhere? Does anyone have a part number listing for them?


I am guessing that the only difference between the 427 and the stock cj unit is the pressure?

As I recall, the 427's idled (up to the '67 production year) with 80psi and the CJ with about 12 hot. The 427 MIGHT have dropped down to 60 hot? That I don't specifically remember.


The "old" racer's adage states that 10psi per 1000rpm is all that is needed but I do remember 427 bottom end failures that were tied to being at the end of the oiling lines, #7 & #8. The side oiler block being the factory "fix" for that issue?

Many, but not all, 427 racers would shim the pressure relief spring in the block to get 100 psi. I did. I don't know if it helped anything?


Again ONE of my concerns, but not all, is pumping too much oil and pumping out the oil in a stock 5 quart oil pan even with two extra quarts added. This engine is going to run a stock FE pan.

In addition, genuine production 427 blocks never had the lifter galleries drilled for oil supply since that was primarily provided to supply oil to the hydraulic lifters. The 68 and later 427 service blocks had the hydraulic lifter provisions new.


In preparing a block for high-performance/racing, many builders of the time recommended restricting the oil to the lifters if running solid lifters.


That discussion isn't what my question is leading to. Some engines that started out as "production" engines required altered oiling procedures. In some cases that meant running a stock volume and pressure pump to keep from pumping the oil up into the valve covers and the pan dry.

"Cleveland's" for instance are often run in competition with stock oil pumps. In addition to aiding in sending the oil to where it is most effective it also reduces the inherent stresses place on the oil pump drive shaft, but then again, that's a different subject.


I'm just looking for feedback on this subject as I can't recall it ever being discussed?  I definitely need clarification.