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What is the origin of the “Z” stamped VIN? …. Is it Ford’s takeover?

Started by Richstang, August 01, 2022, 08:05:12 PM

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honker

Quote from: greekz on August 04, 2022, 07:42:02 PM
Rich,

I do not know if the vin plates are reproductions or not as I have no pictures.  The information is according the the latest 1967 Registry.

I have attached my updated spreadsheet.

When I click on the link in post #28, I get a screen that says "welcome to numbers"  ???

Mike

Side-Oilers

Current:
2006 FGT, Tungsten. Whipple, HRE 20s, Ohlin coil-overs. Top Speed Certified 210.7 mph.

Kirkham Cobra 427.  482-inch aluminum side-oiler. Tremec 5-spd.

Previous:
1968 GT500KR #2575 (1982-2022)
1970 Ranchero GT 429
1969 LTD Country Squire 429
1963 T-Bird Sport Roadster
1957 T-Bird E-model

greekz

Quote from: Side-Oilers on August 04, 2022, 07:53:22 PM
Greekz, excellent work on the spreadsheet. 

Those 14 cars, all purchased by the railroad, were probably the easiest 14 cars SAI ever sold. 

Wonder if SPRR paid full retail for them? (After all, they were damaged goods.)  :P


Thanks,

It would be nice to know.  I have seen only one other car from the derailment and it had front end damage from the repairs that I saw.
SFM 6S1134  '67 GT-350 #2339

98SVT - was 06GT

Quote from: Side-Oilers on August 04, 2022, 07:53:22 PMWonder if SPRR paid full retail for them? (After all, they were damaged goods.)
My parents had a friend who was a Union Pacific RR cop. He said his biggest problem was employee theft. When a shipment got broken into they had to pay retail for what ever was damaged/stolen plus a fee to the shipper covering the delay of their product. He said if someone stole a bottle of shampoo they had to buy the whole pallet and eat the shipping costs then pay a % for each day the shipment was delayed while they investigated. This was in the 60s and he said it cost the RR about $1,000 for that bottle of shampoo. They had a warehouse of stuff in LA where anyone could go bid on the damaged stuff that was left.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang, 1998 SVT 32V, 1929 Model A Coupe, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

Richstang

Quote from: greekz on August 04, 2022, 07:42:02 PM
Rich,

I do not know if the vin plates are reproductions or not as I have no pictures.  The information is according the the latest 1967 Registry.

I have attached my updated spreadsheet.

Thanks for your list Greekz!
It matches exactly as I have the derailment cars noted...6 cars with a 'Z' stamp and 8 unknown.
The last (15th) car may have been completely totaled and thus not listed as a Sante Fe sold car.
You may have posted this list before as it looks familiar.

I believe you have mis-interpretted the registry footnotes.
A car is only noted as having a 'Z' stamp when it is known, maybe even confirmed!

If nothing is written about a "Z" stamp in the footnotes it is NOT known if it has the 'Z' stamp or not.

The first car on your list is #02363. Check out those footnotes!
They state the car was 'MISSING' the Shelby ID tag...not, NO 'Z' stamp.

I think the other 7 cars on you list will follow suit as unknown.
Our SRG theory still stands with Ford's complete takeover in late April / early May.
1967 Shelby Research Group 

www.1967ShelbyResearch.com
www.facebook.com/groups/1967shelbyresearch

1991-1993 SAAC MKI, MKII, & Snake Registrar

greekz

Quote from: Richstang on August 04, 2022, 11:25:31 PM
Quote from: greekz on August 04, 2022, 07:42:02 PM
Rich,

I do not know if the vin plates are reproductions or not as I have no pictures.  The information is according the the latest 1967 Registry.

I have attached my updated spreadsheet.

Thanks for your list Greekz!
It matches exactly as I have the derailment cars noted...6 cars with a 'Z' stamp and 8 unknown.
The last (15th) car may have been completely totaled and thus not listed as a Sante Fe sold car.
You may have posted this list before as it looks familiar.

I believe you have mis-interpretted the registry footnotes.
A car is only noted as having a 'Z' stamp when it is known, maybe even confirmed!

If nothing is written about a "Z" stamp in the footnotes it is NOT known if it has the 'Z' stamp or not.

The first car on your list is #02363. Check out those footnotes!
They state the car was 'MISSING' the Shelby ID tag...not, NO 'Z' stamp.

I think the other 7 cars on you list will follow suit as unknown.
Our SRG theory still stands with Ford's complete takeover in late April / early May.


Rich,

I did some reading as you suggested.  After reading the entire footnote, I see the unknown and VIN tag items.  Should have read to the end.  Usually, the "Z" information is contained in the first few sentences.

My assumption was SAAC, having copies of the invoices would know if the "Z" was part of the VIN.  That got me to checking my own invoice copy and what do you know, there is no "Z" preceding the VIN.  Maybe SAI did not think the "Z" was actually part of the VIN, but as you say, a designation for accounting the cars completed after the takeover.

Even though my invoice does not have the "Z", maybe sometime during its early life the car was inspected by the California DMV and the "Z" was added to the VIN for registration purposes.  The earliest registration car I have is 1976, and the car was titled with the "Z" as part of the VIN.

Thanks again for your efforts in researching the history of these cars.

Greek
SFM 6S1134  '67 GT-350 #2339

Richstang

Quote from: greekz on August 06, 2022, 11:41:25 AM
Quote from: Richstang on August 04, 2022, 11:25:31 PM
Quote from: greekz on August 04, 2022, 07:42:02 PM
Rich,

I do not know if the vin plates are reproductions or not as I have no pictures.  The information is according the the latest 1967 Registry.

I have attached my updated spreadsheet.

Thanks for your list Greekz!
It matches exactly as I have the derailment cars noted...6 cars with a 'Z' stamp and 8 unknown.
The last (15th) car may have been completely totaled and thus not listed as a Sante Fe sold car.
You may have posted this list before as it looks familiar.

I believe you have mis-interpretted the registry footnotes.
A car is only noted as having a 'Z' stamp when it is known, maybe even confirmed!

If nothing is written about a "Z" stamp in the footnotes it is NOT known if it has the 'Z' stamp or not.

The first car on your list is #02363. Check out those footnotes!
They state the car was 'MISSING' the Shelby ID tag...not, NO 'Z' stamp.

I think the other 7 cars on you list will follow suit as unknown.
Our SRG theory still stands with Ford's complete takeover in late April / early May.


Rich,

I did some reading as you suggested.  After reading the entire footnote, I see the unknown and VIN tag items.  Should have read to the end.  Usually, the "Z" information is contained in the first few sentences.

My assumption was SAAC, having copies of the invoices would know if the "Z" was part of the VIN.  That got me to checking my own invoice copy and what do you know, there is no "Z" preceding the VIN.  Maybe SAI did not think the "Z" was actually part of the VIN, but as you say, a designation for accounting the cars completed after the takeover.

Even though my invoice does not have the "Z", maybe sometime during its early life the car was inspected by the California DMV and the "Z" was added to the VIN for registration purposes.  The earliest registration car I have is 1976, and the car was titled with the "Z" as part of the VIN.

Thanks again for your efforts in researching the history of these cars.

Greek

Hi Greekz.

I don't believe any SAI douments had the Z stamp noted on them. If they did the registrar would have included that in the footnotes.
Since we believe the state DMVs all run independantly and individually depending on the person who inputs that info...
A car may or may not have the 'Z' noted as part of the VIN...technically it is not part of the VIN, just stamped in front of it.

Thanks for bringing this up. It was worth looking into as a possibilty.

Rich
1967 Shelby Research Group 

www.1967ShelbyResearch.com
www.facebook.com/groups/1967shelbyresearch

1991-1993 SAAC MKI, MKII, & Snake Registrar

98SVT - was 06GT

Quote from: Richstang on August 07, 2022, 10:06:27 AM
Since we believe the state DMVs all run independantly and individually depending on the person who inputs that info...
A car may or may not have the 'Z' noted as part of the VIN...

When new the DMV put in what was on the MSO the dealer gave them. Over the years the Z may have been added to some when having them inspected for re-registration or transfer thinking the omission was an error. I had to have the title corrected on an original Mini Cooper S. Utah DMV had listed the VIN on the title with the number 5 instead of the correct S. The CA inspector drug out his magnifying glass and said yep that's an S.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang, 1998 SVT 32V, 1929 Model A Coupe, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

shelbymann1970

Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on August 07, 2022, 11:23:41 AM
Quote from: Richstang on August 07, 2022, 10:06:27 AM
Since we believe the state DMVs all run independantly and individually depending on the person who inputs that info...
A car may or may not have the 'Z' noted as part of the VIN...

When new the DMV put in what was on the MSO the dealer gave them. Over the years the Z may have been added to some when having them inspected for re-registration or transfer thinking the omission was an error. I had to have the title corrected on an original Mini Cooper S. Utah DMV had listed the VIN on the title with the number 5 instead of the correct S. The CA inspector drug out his magnifying glass and said yep that's an S.
your story reminds me of KK2039 69 B9 I owned. Prior owner had to get a title for it as his was stolen so he had police come out. with a dirty inside windshield they mistook the "Q" (9F02Q198868) for a 0 so when I bought the car it had the "0" instead of the Q. My car was one of the ones they didn't change the dash tag or stamp the Z over the Q on 69 B9s. I was able with my Eminger invoices and Ford manuals to get my DMV without the car present to change the 0 to a Z and do it for free(I claimed their error). Original KK Door sticker and door tag confirmed as well as the "obvious" a "Z" B9. Well today the car sports a Z dash tag. It appears someone made up a fake Vin tag for the car. I hope they saved the original Q vin tag but doubt it. I thought it was a cool part of it's history(first Eminger report shows Q going to KK then the second a Z going to the Ford dealership). I still have the original paperwork showing our DMV changing the title from an 0 to a Z.
Shelby owner since 1984
SAAC member since 1990
1970 GT350 4 speed(owned since 1985).
  MCA gold 2003(not anymore)
1969 Mach1 428SCJ 4 speed R-code (owned since 2013)
"2nd" owner of 68 GT500 #1626