Preproduction HP289 Ignition Distributor

[Dan Case]

I have no connection to this offering but it is interesting.  Why?  I have gotten lots of information about the development and history of the 1963½ HP289 Fairlane engines (also used in Cobras and other cars) from Mr. Bob Mannel. Based on documents Mr. Mannel has had access to the first prototype HP289 engines were installed in Fairlanes for testing by the end of October 1962. Ford started assembly line production of HP289 engines during the first week of March 1963. It is not unusual to find 1963½ HP289 specific production parts dated in late February 1963. Makes sense, subassemblies made not long before engine production start up.

Based on the assembly date of the partial assembly offered it was probably one of the items necessary to build up some preproduction High Performance 289s for preproduction testing.

Neat artifact but probably not all that valuable unless you just happened to have the rest of the preproduction engine to go with it.  My question is why is it a C3OF-12127-D assembly?  There was a production model before it.

High Performance 260 engines were fitted with C2FF-12127-A mechanical dual point distributors with all known ones having a single assembly date so far.  March through circa May 1963 High Performance 289s received C3OF-12127-F assemblies. I have seen ones dated 3BA through 3DE. The C3OF-12127-D is believed to have been used to finish the balance of 1963 model year engines through June 1963.

Based on this find, Ford was testing the C3OF-12127-D model by September 1962. Back to my question, if the C3OF-D design was already a known in September 1962 why did Ford make suffix F models for three months before introducing the suffix D model?  Said another way, the C3OF-12127-F model appears to have been some type temporary use model.

Other trivia. The PRODUCTION C3OF-12127-F assembly included an empty vacuum advance housing (i.e. no diaphragm inside). The PRODUCTION C3OF-121287-D received a new main body casting with no place to attach a vacuum advance mechanism. The odd partial assembly offered has a dummy vacuum advance.

From the offering:

"Very rare early version of the 289 HiPo distributor. Has correct "empty" vacuum advance with correct original plug. C3OF-12127-D part number with 2KD date code, 4th week of October 1962 which puts this right at the very beginning of HiPo production! No breaker plate. Sold as is."

https://contact.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?FindAnswers&iid=192960386549&findanswers=&redirect=0&requested=darrylh99

[gt350hr]

   Dan are you positive that the D version was a dual point?  I have  a couple of those brass "end caps" and could "make my own" .  LOL Of interest is the parts that are missing.  IMPE the different suffix ( in this case) could simply be a different advance curve calibration. A true "prototype" would have a XF number on it in electric pencil. ( well IMHO anyway)
      Randy

[Dan Case]

   Dan are you positive that the D version was a dual point?  I have  a couple of those brass "end caps" and could "make my own" .  LOL Of interest is the parts that are missing.  IMPE the different suffix ( in this case) could simply be a different advance curve calibration. A true "prototype" would have a XF number on it in electric pencil. ( well IMHO anyway)
      Randy

No doubt, I have had a bunch of PRODUCTION C3OF-12127-D models.  I have CSX2332's original removed circa 1971-72. The C3OF-D model was implemented, per Mr. Mannel, circa May 1963 sometime for the last 1963 model year HP289 engine assemblies made through June 1963 and returned circa July-August 1963 for 1964 model year HP289 engines.

The latest date I have for a C3OF-D model is 4GB from a Cobra's engine.

Trivia: When SFM5R002 was first completed as a running race car it was using a five bolt HP289 with a C3OF-12127-D ignition distributor even though C5OF-12127-E (introduced as the 1965 model distributor) models had been going into new engines since at least August 1964. There was a run of C5OF-E models dated 4HB that got used in five bolt engines assembled for Shelby American (for new Cobras) during the last week of August 1964.

The partial C3OF-D assembly offered in strange as it uses a body casting like a C3OF-F assembly plus an empty vacuum advance mechanism like a C3OF-F did.  In Mr. Mannel's book Appendix D page D-14 a timing data table and plotted curve itemize the C3OF-F and C3OF-D models as having the same timing specifications.

[Dan Case]

   Dan are you positive that the D version was a dual point?  I have  a couple of those brass "end caps" and could "make my own" .  LOL Of interest is the parts that are missing.  IMPE the different suffix ( in this case) could simply be a different advance curve calibration. A true "prototype" would have a XF number on it in electric pencil. ( well IMHO anyway)
      Randy

The prototype mechanical advance dual point FoMoCo® ignition distributors for Experimental High Performance 260 (XHP-260) engines were indentified with embossed red plastic  DYMO® labels. One label was embossed with XF-139764. A second label was embossed with the unit serial number.

One of the distributors used in engine XHP-260-1 (Experimental High Performance 260 serial number 1) in CSX2000 was identified as XF-139764 serial number 6 of 35.

[CharlesTurner]

Pics from the auction

[CharlesTurner]

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[C6ZZKGT]

This distributor sold June 30, 2019 on Ebay for $411.00 with 6 bids from 3 bidders.

-Fred-

[CSX2259]

Here is the stamping pad for the early dual point w/ vacuum diaphragm housing I have, it has a "-F" and not the "D".

[Dan Case]

Here is the stamping pad for the early dual point w/ vacuum diaphragm housing I have, it has a "-F" and not the "D".

The first "production" 1963½ HP289 dual point model was identified as suffix F. Production models of suffix F started sometime in February 1963.  Other than the Ford documents that Mr. Bob Mannel gained access to there is little information on High Performance 289 engines before March 7, 1963; at which time only 65 each "production" engines had been produced.  The production rate after that increased.  Based on what Mr. Mannel has access to Ford built what we might call complete running prototype or preproduction engines for tests including installation into at least one running test mule vehicle in the September – October time frame of 1962.

Mr. Mannel  and I have discussed many details of 1963½ and 1964 HP289 engines over the years.  The preproduction ignition distributor in the original post is EARLIEST BY DATE HP289 specific part of any kind that I have personally become aware of. I have been interested in HP289 powered cars since 1964 so this thing is rare. By itself it is just an interesting HP289 artifact of what Ford engineers were working with in 1962.

A few years ago the very first (engineering serial number 1) prototype of what would become the 1965 model year six bolt bell housing HP289 engine was available for sale. It created little interest.  Neat but because it wasn't part of a car still it was just an interesting foot note to history.  Tiny fasteners to complete major subassemblies if they were not used in series car production or used by a 'factory' or famous race team most people have little interest.    Example: Production HP289 engine parts dated before about April 13, 1963 have become more sought after in the last two years as owners of early Cobras that original had engines from that time frame want replacement engines as close as they can find to day one.  It is pretty difficult to find everything from oil pan drain plug to carburetor, water pump to bell housing in great restorable condition or even new old stock for those few weeks. It took several of us quite a while all around this country and Europe to do it.  Parts dated later or versions used later, the car owner didn't want them even if they were cheap. Engineering numbers and date codes mattered to him. Example: Shelby / Autosports® retail accessories circa 1969-71 have had a generally small market except for most Boss 302 engine goodies that some car owners still enjoy having and or using.