automatic vs 4 speed starter identifacation

[Bob Gaines]

 The automatic starters will work in a 4 speed but a 4 speed starter will not work in a automatic. The thin band on the starter nose is typically automatic and the wider band is for 4 speed. It has to do with how far the Bendix push's out to engage the fly wheel/flex plate teeth. I posted a picture showing the different in the outside band used for identification and the nose cone difference on how far it sticks out. The Bendix in the auto starter has to go out farther to reach the teeth of the flex plate . The 4 speed starter does not have to go out as far to engage the teeth of the flywheel.  Mix ups happened . Here is a vintage photo of a automatic starter installed in a 4 speed car. There is a later SA TSB about it because it was a ongoing mix up problem . You can always ask a starter rebuilder versed in rebuilding the earlier Ford starters about the nose as it applies to a 4 speed vs automatic .

[acman63]

  the picture is a factory photo of a 65 on the assemblyline at SA  with alloy T10 4 speed.  the starter I have is identical to that starter and I verified it with Bob Mannel by engineering number as proper for 289 4 speed cars with small bell housing flywheels

[silverton_ford]

Thank you for posting!  I went through this dilemma this past summer.   This is very helpful.

[Bob Gaines]

  the picture is a factory photo of a 65 on the assemblyline at SA  with alloy T10 4 speed.  the starter I have is identical to that starter and I verified it with Bob Mannel by engineering number as proper for 289 4 speed cars with small bell housing flywheels

Like I said mistakes happen. Ask your starter rebuilder about it .

[Shelby_r_b]

Great info. Thanks!

[gjz30075]

Great reference!   Thanks Bob!

[Blackcar]

Bob, does this apply to FE's as well as small blocks ?

[Bob Gaines]

Bob, does this apply to FE's as well as small blocks ?

No it does not . The three ear FE starter is the same regardless of if 4 speed or auto. There are specific engineering numbers ink stamped or metal stamped into case depending on application

[papa scoops]

what about the number of teeth on the flywheel? (4 speed) I also have a ford reman book (dealer parts) that show the correct gear assy is sourced from a Lincoln. correct? phred

[pbf777]

     The frequent reference to the flywheel tooth count as to proper starter application in the S.B.F.: 157 tooth count manual flywheels & both the 157 & 164 tooth count automatic flexplates generally accept the longer noise or sometimes referred to as the 3/4" depth units, whereas the 164 tooth count manual flywheel generally utilize the shorter noise or sometimes referred to as the 3/8" depth units. Also, note that the starter's location register diameter relationship is different: 4.084" in the prior vs. 4.130" in the later.   

     Scott.

[Bob Gaines]

what about the number of teeth on the flywheel? (4 speed) I also have a ford reman book (dealer parts) that show the correct gear assy is sourced from a Lincoln. correct? phred

The flywheel tooth count also has to do with the bellhousing in the case of the smallblock too  . That was a 68 transition.

[pbf777]

     I don't remember about 1968 applications , but with the introduction of the 351C engines, the cast iron bellhousings accepting the 164 tooth, 11" clutches, had a boss cast into the starter well to limit the depth application of the starter.

     Scott.