Concours rule change

[1967 eight barrel]

That's fine. I'll just take the people's choice award while the purist get upset over chrome and lowered control arms. I don't have a museum, I drive it.
My vehicle looks factory, but with a lot of bright work. Perhaps I will change my position when I get old, or the next caretaker can choose the Concours route.
Because I drive my vehicle, safety is also very important to me. I will just not start welding on the chassis to improve handling.

                                                                                                      -Keith

[Greg]

Whether we like it or not, there will always be some subjectivness to the judging.  The human people doing the judging have various backgrounds/experiences and have seen and performed various levels of restorations.  I'm sure a car that won gold 20 years ago probably wouldn't now because the judging is more educated.  I also agree that a standard has to be set and if you are going for a TBred, Premiere, Concours class then the car should be single stage with orange peel like Ford/Shelby did it. 

There are very, very few cars that can get the TBred award simply because the parts are no longer readily availabe.  As most of you have done and know, it takes a lot of time and money to bring a car to that level.  Personally, it has always been a fight within myself to do enough to the car to make it a fun driver and not take to a level which then prohibits me from driving it anymore.  There is no right or wrong. 

A wise fellow once told me, buy the car you want, have fun with it and when your done driving it, restore it to the level you want.  ~~ Great advice~~

[shelbydoug]

How can a Car that has been repainted a different color from Factory be Concours?  Even a Car that was painted back the same color from Factory but Clear Coated shouldn't be in Concours.  Concours is Cars that are 100% Factory Correct.

I don't think a clear coat on an otherwise perfect car should matter. And it never has btw.
If the judges want to deduct for that then maybe treated like non confirming exhaust or shifter boot etc. we cant go down the road or clear vs not.
Why?
I tell you...
Because take a look a the Wimbledon  white cars.
Are they all the same color?........

It is still possible to have a car restored to the original paint finish OR have the original paint finish. Why should a car that was re-painted in another paint system be held equal to the original?

It would seem that is fairer to one party then the other?

[CharlesTurner]

It is still possible to have a car restored to the original paint finish OR have the original paint finish. Why should a car that was re-painted in another paint system be held equal to the original?

It would seem that is fairer to one party then the other?

It only matters what is allowed according to the judging guidelines.  The same could be said for a car with NOS tires on a Concours car.  They might get a big thumbs up from the judges, but the car will score the same as the car with repro tires.

[shelbydoug]

It is still possible to have a car restored to the original paint finish OR have the original paint finish. Why should a car that was re-painted in another paint system be held equal to the original?

It would seem that is fairer to one party then the other?

It only matters what is allowed according to the judging guidelines.  The same could be said for a car with NOS tires on a Concours car.  They might get a big thumbs up from the judges, but the car will score the same as the car with repro tires.

Yes. I understand that. What I am saying is that fair to the more original car?

[J_Speegle]

Yes. I understand that. What I am saying is that fair to the more original car?

Likely no but that is a byproduct of rule making.

Like many things no matter where you draw the starting or finish line it can be seen as fair or unfair to a particular entrant.

In this specific matter (paint) owners and builders unequally are affected by governmental regulations and laws so it could be seen to be unfair to the BC/CC crowd that in order to get a single stage they would have to travel further, choose to break the law and/or spend more dollars to get the same paint job as someone in another state.

Overall there are a number of things that can be seen as unfair and I would not hesitate to say that some owners believe it is unfair that their cars must be painted the original color since other organizations don't require the same.  I believe the bottom line is that the rules and guidelines are established, published and followed so each possible everyone gets to choose, if they wish, to participate.

Just an experienced observation.

[shelbydoug]

Yes. I understand that. What I am saying is that fair to the more original car?

Likely no but that is a byproduct of rule making.

Like many things no matter where you draw the starting or finish line it can be seen as fair or unfair to a particular entrant.

In this specific matter (paint) owners and builders unequally are affected by governmental regulations and laws so it could be seen to be unfair to the BC/CC crowd that in order to get a single stage they would have to travel further, choose to break the law and/or spend more dollars to get the same paint job as someone in another state.

Overall there are a number of things that can be seen as unfair and I would not hesitate to say that some owners believe it is unfair that their cars must be painted the original color since other organizations don't require the same.  I believe the bottom line is that the rules and guidelines are established, published and followed so each possible everyone gets to choose, if they wish, to participate.

Just an experienced observation.

It doesn't really matter to me because I don't compete in any type of a Concourse event but what you are saying is that the rules here are catered to political appeasement rather then to rewarding the historically accurate?

There are two Concourse classes now. One that requires assembly line parts. One that accepts substitutions for those parts.

Why isn't paint finish classified the same way. One is original assembly line. The other is an acceptable substitution?

When has the cost of competing ever been a consideration? If you want to compete with a 427 Cobra, first you have to have the car?

[polyglas]

Doug , It's called the unrestored class. Original paint is a requirement! The 3rd class , the most important class. Unfortunately not many cars left with original paint. Most Clubs try to have guidelines to meet the 3 concours classes.

[Chris Thauberger]

I am always fascinated by the opinions of those who never plan to enter concours.

[tesgt350]

It is still possible to have a car restored to the original paint finish OR have the original paint finish. Why should a car that was re-painted in another paint system be held equal to the original?

It would seem that is fairer to one party then the other?

It only matters what is allowed according to the judging guidelines.  The same could be said for a car with NOS tires on a Concours car.  They might get a big thumbs up from the judges, but the car will score the same as the car with repro tires.

As long as those Tires are Repros of what came on the Car from Factory.  Tires like BF G's should NOT be allowed on a Car being Judged for Concours.

[Bob Gaines]

It is still possible to have a car restored to the original paint finish OR have the original paint finish. Why should a car that was re-painted in another paint system be held equal to the original?

It would seem that is fairer to one party then the other?

It only matters what is allowed according to the judging guidelines.  The same could be said for a car with NOS tires on a Concours car.  They might get a big thumbs up from the judges, but the car will score the same as the car with repro tires.

As long as those Tires are Repros of what came on the Car from Factory. Tires like BF G's should NOT be allowed on a Car being Judged for Concours.

They are not allowed now and there are deductions in place if the choice is made to have them when entered.

[acman63]

Yes. I understand that. What I am saying is that fair to the more original car?

Likely no but that is a byproduct of rule making.

Like many things no matter where you draw the starting or finish line it can be seen as fair or unfair to a particular entrant.

In this specific matter (paint) owners and builders unequally are affected by governmental regulations and laws so it could be seen to be unfair to the BC/CC crowd that in order to get a single stage they would have to travel further, choose to break the law and/or spend more dollars to get the same paint job as someone in another state.

Overall there are a number of things that can be seen as unfair and I would not hesitate to say that some owners believe it is unfair that their cars must be painted the original color since other organizations don't require the same.  I believe the bottom line is that the rules and guidelines are established, published and followed so each possible everyone gets to choose, if they wish, to participate.

Just an experienced observation.

Doug:   You can change the color but you cant win a gold if you do. You cant compete in SAAC Premiere at all if its a color change  , you will get put in SAAC Concours  and SAAC Unrestored has to have original paint

[SNAKEBIT]

So, what is Tbred and Premier? I know what concours is, I think. 

[J_Speegle]

So, what is Tbred and Premier? I know what concours is, I think. 

They are labels/names of two very similar classes for two different organizations. In both classes points can be deducted for reproduction or non-original parts (even parts sold as NOS) if found or discovered during judging. In addition in both judges can consider date codes and paint marks as part of the process.  Both are restored classes.

Thoroughbred is a class in MCA (Mustang Club of America) Judging

[SNAKEBIT]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up! I want my future Shelby to really be correct, but I wont be turning it into a concours car. I want to drive it around town, to take trips with the top down. Enjoy driving it, not trailering it. Once a year, I will give it a "once-over" inside and out.