428 thermostat

[shelbydoug]

Here's a question. Why do we only hear the "overheating" complaint for the Shelby's and the Cobras?

What about the 352, 390, 410, 427, 428 FE Galaxie's, Thunderbirds, Cougars, and  F150's, etc?

Listening to the complaints, it makes it sound to me that the entire FE line is under engineered and a total mistake to put into production? It doesn't make sense?

[Eritor]

The two different 54mm thermostat I mention is high flow and already have small holes from factory. Not easy to see but still there in my pictures. Erik

[Bob Gaines]

Here's a question. Why do we only hear the "overheating" complaint for the Shelby's and the Cobras?

What about the 352, 390, 410, 427, 428 FE Galaxie's, Thunderbirds, Cougars, and  F150's, etc?

Listening to the complaints, it makes it sound to me that the entire FE line is under engineered and a total mistake to put into production? It doesn't make sense?

With the exception of the Cougar the other cars mentioned have a substantially larger engine compartment for air to flow through. The Mustang /Cougar engine compartment is filled side to side and front to back with engine . There is very little room for air circulation compared to others.  I can only guess why you are not hearing about cooling issues with the BB Cougars. Maybe you aren't networked with the Cougar crowd like you are with other performance Ford cars. 

[shelbydoug]

Here's a question. Why do we only hear the "overheating" complaint for the Shelby's and the Cobras?

What about the 352, 390, 410, 427, 428 FE Galaxie's, Thunderbirds, Cougars, and  F150's, etc?

Listening to the complaints, it makes it sound to me that the entire FE line is under engineered and a total mistake to put into production? It doesn't make sense?

With the exception of the Cougar the other cars mentioned have a substantially larger engine compartment for air to flow through. The Mustang /Cougar engine compartment is filled side to side and front to back with engine . There is very little room for air circulation compared to others.  I can only guess why you are not hearing about cooling issues with the BB Cougars. Maybe you aren't networked with the Cougar crowd like you are with other performance Ford cars.

Hum? Maybe?

[Bigblock]

I can only guess why you are not hearing about cooling issues with the BB Cougars.

Having had an R code and several 390 Cougars back in the day most summer city driving required having the heater going to keep the gauge off H. Had to retard the timing to get a re-start when hot along with 2 gauge cables, or wait 15-20 minutes.

[shelbydoug]

I can only guess why you are not hearing about cooling issues with the BB Cougars.

Having had an R code and several 390 Cougars back in the day most summer city driving required having the heater going to keep the gauge off H. Had to retard the timing to get a re-start when hot along with 2 gauge cables, or wait 15-20 minutes.

The Ford Motorsport "electronic" ignition that replaced the points systems retards the ignition on start for easier starting. There is a California only version which I think the number is retarded 14 degrees at start up.

The US version retards it also, but not as much. Makes cranking a hot engine much easier.

I wish the hood louvers on the Shelby hoods were relocated so I don't need to look through this wavy hot air while I am driving?

I'd like to know what the exact number is on "H"?

[R Code]

...I can only guess why you are not hearing about cooling issues with the BB Cougars...

I've owned my R code vert (with a/c) for 32 years & it only overheated 2x: once due to a bad water pump, and once due to a bad head gasket.

[shelbydoug]

As far as the engine taking up more space in the engine compartment and having more air circulation issues around it, I'm not going to say no.

I had a Boss 351 in the car for over ten years. It fits the engine compartment as much as an FE does.

I had/have the battery in the trunk with the "Ford" kit and cable, and used a BB radiator. I can say that in all that time I NEVER had an issue with it running hot or hard starting, and that's a ten or eleven foot long battery cable?



In my case I can tell you exactly what the gauge temp said because I have SW gauges in place of the temp and fuel gauges in the dash. Just because the temp is on H doesn't mean it is overheating. Not on a Ford gauge.

My 351c would run to 210 to 215 and never go higher. When on the road at parkway speeds it would drop down to about 185.

I don't post this to criticize, just to compare information.



A Cleveland in a "68 Mustang" chassis is a big momma. It's up against the shock towers like a FE is.

Just to add icing to this cake, this car is factory air conditioned also.

So I'm thinking that the size of the engine is part of it, but it doesn't tell the whole story?



I will say that I did put a Tilton starter in the car almost immediately and any and all starting issues SEEMINGLY disappeared forever. The ONLY big case starter that would work was the ACCELL big ugly yellow one.



I think of it this way. There is a 12 pound system in the car for a reason. 230 to 240 operating temperatures are not out of line at all. Restarting it hot is another issue, not to mention ignition timing disagreements with the pump fuel octane?



ONE of the old ways of setting ignition timing is to turn it up until the car pings going up a hill, then back it off a couple of degrees. The issue now with the timing is the RATE at which it reaches full advance. Not necessarily the total number.



Remember that when new, these things only had a 12,000 mile/one year warranty. There is a reason for that besides Ford being cheap but I think that the FE's in particular need tons of maintenance attention?

[KR Convertible]

I think mine was 240-250 when pinned on "H".  I'm sure they all read different.  I removed my vacuum tree and installed a mechanical gauge that I checked in boiling water for accuracy.

There was a 12 page discussion about my temperature problems before the crash.  Lots of good info, but somewhat painful.  Bottom line is you have to optimize everything in the system such as water jacket cleanliness, thermostat, lower hose spring, water pump impeller, radiator, fan and clutch.

You then have to think about timing, advance curve, and mixture.

I did all that. I used a new Autozone fan clutch for diagnosis and found that the car ran hotter with that than the rebuilt original Ford piece, so I assumed my clutch must be good.  I finally decided to replace the fan clutch with one of Chris Brown's reproductions, and instantly dropped 20 degrees.  Best money I ever spent!  Lesson learned! 

[shelbydoug]

I think mine was 240-250 when pinned on "H".  I'm sure they all read different.  I removed my vacuum tree and installed a mechanical gauge that I checked in boiling water for accuracy.

There was a 12 page discussion about my temperature problems before the crash.  Lots of good info, but somewhat painful.  Bottom line is you have to optimize everything in the system such as water jacket cleanliness, thermostat, lower hose spring, water pump impeller, radiator, fan and clutch.

You then have to think about timing, advance curve, and mixture.

I did all that. I used a new Autozone fan clutch for diagnosis and found that the car ran hotter with that than the rebuilt original Ford piece, so I assumed my clutch must be good.  I finally decided to replace the fan clutch with one of Chris Brown's reproductions, and instantly dropped 20 degrees.  Best money I ever spent!  Lesson learned!

I agree. This is what I mean about the BB needing lots of maintenance attention.

+1 on the fan clutch. For such a simple device, it's a life saver.

[KR Convertible]

Anyone know of a way to definitively test a fan clutch?  I hated to go from a rebuilt original to a repro, but so glad I did now!

[shelbydoug]

Anyone know of a way to definitively test a fan clutch?  I hated to go from a rebuilt original to a repro, but so glad I did now!

I don't. Ask the rebuilder. It probably needs to be hooked up to a variable speed  "lathe" device where you can change speeds and measure the change to the the fan speed?

Sounds like a complex device to build to test just one?

[KR Convertible]

Usually, they are under $100 and you swap it out to diagnose it.  The repro is around $400, so it's a bit more painful.  That's why I used the cheap one for testing.  Big mistake.

[shelbydoug]

The one I need is a C7ZX. It's a pretty rare one and even if I found one, that doesn't mean it would be good as is.

I've HAD to make decisions like you made myself. So that becomes a $500 fan clutch instead of a $400 one?

Been there done that. I probably will make the same mistake again in the future. A leopard can't change his spots.

[2112]

Anyone know of a way to definitively test a fan clutch?  I hated to go from a rebuilt original to a repro, but so glad I did now!

That even an expert would be hard pressed to tell from an original