concours corrections

[EdwardGT350]

during saac conv judging, is the any time given to correct any imperfections? ie bulb out, horn not working etc
is there any post judging conversations before the final tally?

[Bob Gaines]

during saac conv judging, is the any time given to correct any imperfections? ie bulb out, horn not working etc
is there any post judging conversations before the final tally?

Yes , technically time is given to correct imperfections up to the point where judging begins. That is technically the way it is done so everyone is treated the same . With that said sometimes when a judge will see something minor like a piece of masking tape left underneath sticking to the car or Cobra floor mats left on the floors and they will say they they are going to be judging the engine compartment and hope that "something" disappears in a certain area of the car. A entrant has a opportunity and is encouraged to discuss items that may be out of the ordinary or controversial at the introduction phase of the judging . This helps eliminate misunderstanding later. The entrant should have back up evidence at that time (pictures or other pertinent evidence) to support his or her point of view.  Deductions are typically not shared with entrant during or immediately after judging for reasons of keeping disruptive behavior to a minimum during the convention. Past incidents by disruptive entrants has shaped protocol going forward. Also typically there is not enough time to go over sheets during judging given the time allotted and number of cars entered. It is not proper protocol to debate a judge over a deduction during judging in case a entrant over hears a discussion or a judge volunteers although very courteous interaction is not frowned upon as long as it is not a nuisance . There are deductions however for disruptive behavior during judging. I hope this helps.

[J_Speegle]

during saac conv judging, is the any time given to correct any imperfections? ie bulb out, horn not working etc

Of course. You have all the time in the world up to the moment the team walks up to and introduces themselves to you as they start the process. At that same time if they notice that you still have your literature collection proudly displayed across your dash pad or filling your trunk, stuff animals perched on your air cleaner, do not touch magnetic  stickers on your fenders or the like they will ask you to correct these before they get started. 

Often members of the team will get a prep look at the cars in their class or classes before show day. Does not hurt to ask if they notice anything that stands out.  Of course they are not looking for a long debate or conducting a full going over but don't think any would not inform you that you left a piece of masking tape attached to something, the coil needs rotating, get rid of the CAUTION FAN sticker (am I the first to mention it on this new forum  and the like in other to help out.  Doesn't hurt to reach out before show day for details and help

As far as mechanical things test everything once you get on site and address it quickly. Gremlins show up every show - when your least expecting them. Many of us have been there.

I am reminded that in many occasions when there was possibly an issue with the paint I've asked the owner/representative it that would take a clean towel and wipe the spot to see if it goes away (something that has landed on the car or something else) This always seems to work ti the benefit of both the owner and the judge. If it goes away - its gone. If not then the owner/representative had confirmed there is an issue, is aware of it and knows its locations because they are likely going to see a note about it on their judging sheet


Good luck

[tgilliam]

I would like to share some comments related to this topic. This past year I had the opportunity to show my car in the SAAC Conv. concours class. I also showed the car at some other venues where it was judged by SAAC Judges. In all cases the Judges did a great job of coming around the car before the judging period and answering questions I had. During the judging they were extremely helpful in explaining details they observed about the car allowing me to make notes during the process. There were several cases where I was able to have some conversation after the judging on specific points or to clear up discussion points where I was not clear on "how" to correct a noted condition. These were not chances to fix things at the time but went a long way in allowing me to improve my car before the next show event. During the course of the year I had a sizable list of things that I was able to correct to improve my car and ended up with a much better car by the end of the show season. I am particularly grateful that these judges were willing to share their time and knowledge to help me when in all cases they had a "full" day of work judging all the cars in the shows. I would strongly suggest "listening" and taking good notes during a show event as opposed to trying to "fix" things at the last minute or debating individual points that come up during the process. From my experience: I thought I had a pretty good level of knowledge about the car category I was showing in but by the end of the season I understood I had moved from "novice" to "somewhat knowledge" about that particular car class. It is difficult and not for everyone but I do not know of another way to learn that level of detail without going through the process of showing a car at that level.
Again, I would like to say thank you to the individuals that volunteer to judge our cars and specifically the different judges that help me with my car this past season.

Tom Gilliam

[EdwardGT350]

+1
i had my car judge in 2010 at the sears point saac conv. and it was a great experience.
received a laundry list of needs. the judges were fair and knowledgeable and eager to help. truly passionate and dedicated individuals.
hopefully when its judged again i will be able to meet the experts expectations.

[JD]

I would like to share some comments related to this topic. This past year I had the opportunity to show my car in the SAAC Conv. concours class. I also showed the car at some other venues where it was judged by SAAC Judges. In all cases the Judges did a great job of coming around the car before the judging period and answering questions I had. During the judging they were extremely helpful in explaining details they observed about the car allowing me to make notes during the process. There were several cases where I was able to have some conversation after the judging on specific points or to clear up discussion points where I was not clear on "how" to correct a noted condition. These were not chances to fix things at the time but went a long way in allowing me to improve my car before the next show event. During the course of the year I had a sizable list of things that I was able to correct to improve my car and ended up with a much better car by the end of the show season. I am particularly grateful that these judges were willing to share their time and knowledge to help me when in all cases they had a "full" day of work judging all the cars in the shows. I would strongly suggest "listening" and taking good notes during a show event as opposed to trying to "fix" things at the last minute or debating individual points that come up during the process. From my experience: I thought I had a pretty good level of knowledge about the car category I was showing in but by the end of the season I understood I had moved from "novice" to "somewhat knowledge" about that particular car class. It is difficult and not for everyone but I do not know of another way to learn that level of detail without going through the process of showing a car at that level.
Again, I would like to say thank you to the individuals that volunteer to judge our cars and specifically the different judges that help me with my car this past season.

Tom Gilliam

Tom your summary of experience and the openness of you and your crew (Jeremy) are prime examples of how to participate and learn in the concours arena! 

Open, attentive, polite and invested participation gets the most out of the judges and moves the car and the owner/restores knowledge ahead.  Judges very quickly recognize and respect those that are there to learn and listen. 

It seems that the majority of "judging experiences" that get discussed are the few negatives ones, the majority are more like what you have summarized above but few actually put into words.

Thanks for your and your crews' participation and stating what it's like!!

[TOBKOB]

I would like to share some comments related to this topic. This past year I had the opportunity to show my car in the SAAC Conv. concours class. I also showed the car at some other venues where it was judged by SAAC Judges. In all cases the Judges did a great job of coming around the car before the judging period and answering questions I had. During the judging they were extremely helpful in explaining details they observed about the car allowing me to make notes during the process. There were several cases where I was able to have some conversation after the judging on specific points or to clear up discussion points where I was not clear on "how" to correct a noted condition. These were not chances to fix things at the time but went a long way in allowing me to improve my car before the next show event. During the course of the year I had a sizable list of things that I was able to correct to improve my car and ended up with a much better car by the end of the show season. I am particularly grateful that these judges were willing to share their time and knowledge to help me when in all cases they had a "full" day of work judging all the cars in the shows. I would strongly suggest "listening" and taking good notes during a show event as opposed to trying to "fix" things at the last minute or debating individual points that come up during the process. From my experience: I thought I had a pretty good level of knowledge about the car category I was showing in but by the end of the season I understood I had moved from "novice" to "somewhat knowledge" about that particular car class. It is difficult and not for everyone but I do not know of another way to learn that level of detail without going through the process of showing a car at that level.
Again, I would like to say thank you to the individuals that volunteer to judge our cars and specifically the different judges that help me with my car this past season.

Tom Gilliam

Well said... I also had my Shelby judged at SAAC 42 and I had the same experience as Tom, a very pleasant experience.

TOB

[SNAKEBIT]

I'd love to learn how to bring a Shelby up to concours level. I take it, that is like taking a factory car and buffing it and dusting it off? All correct and very clean?

[CharlesTurner]

I'd love to learn how to bring a Shelby up to concours level. I take it, that is like taking a factory car and buffing it and dusting it off? All correct and very clean?

Concours should be a car as it was originally made by Ford (Shelby's as modified/completed when new).

[J_Speegle]

I'd love to learn how to bring a Shelby up to concours level.

Much easier IMHO to build a car to a competitive level than taking a car already built and bring it up to the standard. Depends on the owner, car, builder, time and wallet 

I take it, that is like taking a factory car and buffing it and dusting it off? All correct and very clean?

Be aware cars can be over-restored. Today many of what would be seen a flaws or unsightly are excepted and expected depending on the specific detail or finish discussed. "Concours level" at a marque show like SAAC can be and often is IMHO  very different than at a concours de elegance type of show

[JD]

I'd love to learn how to bring a Shelby up to concours level.

Much easier IMHO to build a car to a competitive level than taking a car already built and bring it up to the standard. Depends on the owner, car, builder, time and wallet  ::)

I take it, that is like taking a factory car and buffing it and dusting it off? All correct and very clean?

Be aware cars can be over-restored. Today many of what would be seen a flaws or unsightly are excepted and expected depending on the specific detail or finish discussed. "Concours level" at a marque show like SAAC can be and often is IMHO  very different than at a concours de elegance type of show

^^^ +1 to both statements

[silverton_ford]

I'd love to learn how to bring a Shelby up to concours level. I take it, that is like taking a factory car and buffing it and dusting it off? All correct and very clean?

I suggest that you attend some MCA and SAAC concours events.  Watch, observe and take notes.   Ask people questions as time allows.   Once you are some what knowledgeable about the process of the shows and have been to a couple; then ask the people in charge if you can volunteer and help in anyway.  This may be doing the grunt jobs, but everyone has to start somewhere.  The more exposure you get the more you learn. 

There are other sources our there to check out too.  Follow the  Concours Mustang forum.  Many folks from here are there too, but it is geared to all Mustangs, not just Shelbys.  There is a huge data base of knowledge on that site.   Also become a Mustang Club of America member.  Once you are a member you can access their forum.  You can also access the judging rules and score sheets through MCA.  It doesn't tell you everything, but helps you know what to look for and more of the processes.  Another important thing to take note on is, don't automatically believe everything you hear or read....always take it in and learn more about it to make sure it is correct for your application.  Some facts are not always exactly for your car and can be broad statements or just inflated rumors (not maliciously on purpose) over the years.  Be respectful of the information you learn, but always check it out and be comfortable with that information before you take it and run with it.

Then I would suggest you to study original photos and original "untouched" cars from the time period of your car.  Pay attention to the details.  Look for differences in photos and study the different finishes, markings and hardware.  Pay attention to date codes, shift changes, possible assembly line strikes that hold up production, changes in different suppliers, varied assembly line tendencies from each other and service replacement part changes. This often overwhelms people, but it is not always for everyone.  I struggle myself and I am constantly learning new things about these cars.

These are some steps I am currently taking in my ever expanding grasp of how to bring up a car to concours level.  I have not seen an "easy" button or a perfect book on this subject. We are always learning different details as we all get more involved with our cars, so the entire concourse experience is always changing to some degree.  As you get more involved you will meet a lot of great people, which to me is just as important as the satisfaction of getting the car to that level.  Once you get your car to that satisfied level be prepared for folks asking you questions and giving feedback about your car.  Don't see that feedback as negative criticism, see it as another opportunity to learn something new or pass on your knowledge.  Keep your nose to the ground and keep researching.....that is my method.

[SNAKEBIT]

Wow. Thanks for taking the time Silverton and everybody. I may just stick to driving a Shelby that is in really nice, mostly correct condition. 

[silverton_ford]

Wow. Thanks for taking the time Silverton and everybody. I may just stick to driving a Shelby that is in really nice, mostly correct condition. 

Nothing wrong with that at all.    You don't have to restore the car to exact all at once.  You will find areas of the car that you can focus on as you drive it and enjoy it.  You can do little or a lot.  Nothing wrong with that at all....after all it is your car, do as you want that satisfies you.  As you get further along you may learn that there are some items that need to be done before others and those are all decisions that you make while you are enjoying the car.  No one said it would be fast and easy.

[SNAKEBIT]

Silverton, thanks. That is most likely what I will do with it, if I find and can purchase the '70 Shelby I want. I have all the time in the world, right now, to learn as much as I can about what is correct and where to find the parts, if it doesn't have the correct part, which is very likely true, since it is, after all, a 48 year old car as of 2018.