Carter #4254-S

[pbf777]

      I posted this on the FE forum with no response so I thought I would try over here, and even though we're not talking Shelby's I realize there are knowledgeable people over here on the FE's so..........

      It seems most comment that the Carter #4442-S is the proper unit for the '67 427 Fairlanes, perhaps being Ford #COAZ-9350-D, and sometimes the Carter #4399 (?) (difference?) is injected into the conversation, these perhaps as I have read applicable to a date of before 02/01/67?    Yes - No?

     Then curiously descending numerically for a later listed application, the Carter #4441-S, as perhaps being Ford #C7AZ-9350-A, is listed as being for '68-'70 Ford 427-428, as being applicable post the 02/01/67 date?   Yes - No?

     So where does the Carter #4254-S (descending numerically even further?) fit in?     

     Over the decades we have accumulated a few Carter "X" fuel pumps #4254-S that I removed from various 427 engines and set to the side ages ago because I don't throw to much away, and as it seems much of what I did toss turns out to be what everyone wants now, but that's another issue!     

     The question is:  Is the above information correct, and then what application is correct for this Carter #4254-S?  In looking it up, I find the application description of 1967 Ford 427, and that would be for what vehicle?  Why not the '67  427 Fairlane?       

     Thank you,
     Scott.

[Royce Peterson]

The Carter #4441-S, Ford #C7AZ-9350-A was used on the 427 side oiler equipped 1968 Cougar GT-E beginning in August 1967 when the first batch of 427 GT-E's were produced. When the 428CJ came out mid 1968 model year many of the parts from the 427 GT-E were also used on the 428CJ.

Yes the 4442S is correct for the R code and W code 1967 Fairlanes and Comets.

I have not seen a 4254S - how many check valves does it have? It's not anything Ford ever used in production IMHO.

[GOAT12]

To add to the confusion my 67 R-code Fairlane has an A/C fuel pump number 4986. The original owner says that is what it came with, I find no mention of A/c pump anywhere in the MPC in the pump or rebuild kit area.  Hollander manual does list both an A/C pump, number 4918 and Carter, number M9031 for the 67 427 Fairlane. As I am sure you found the MPC lists the Carter 4442 as correct for that application, but no listing for 4254. Of course the catalog vs production are only distant cousins at times.

[shelbydoug]

I have the AC pump also.

The FE's ARE very confusing and frankly functionally, I don't know what the differences are to the pumps themselves.

I just keep saying to myself what Mr.Gaines said, i.e., "we only look at part numbers and dates in 'Thoroughbred' Concours', Div. 1. In Div.II we just look for the button top pump".


Do the best that you can and if you are preparing to sell the car, just be careful of the way that you phrase it.

EVEN IF you had a "factory virgin" here to sell, few would believe it and there is enough contradicting evidence to cast doubt in even most of the experts eyes.

Just think of representing the car as very driveable and saved from the dead. Right there that will gain a lot of attention from some very serious knowledgeable buyers.

Some parts are just not replaceable and reasonable substitutes in character to the original car are acceptable to most.

[Royce Peterson]

Through the magic of Google I found that the Carter 4254-S was original equipment on Chris Craft boats using the 427 Ford engine from 1966 - 1970. One place has rebuild kits that include three check valves. I don't know if the pump actually uses three check valves or not.

[430dragpack]

This first picture shows the AC fuel pump on 427s getting ready to be installed in Cobras, not exactly sure what year.   The second and third picture is an AC fuel pump model 0294, dated February of 1965 inside, just like the pumps on those engines in picture one.  I've seen pictures of '66 427 Fairlanes with both the AC pump and Carter pumps installed, but have no knowledge of originality or pump model number. Obviously there is only 57 of those built, but could shed light on a possible changeover to Ford using Carter more on HP big block engines than in previous years. Also, possibly many of the 66 Fairlanes were converted to electric pumps and various engines in and out of the cars while being raced makes it difficult to verify.  It seems that AC style (possibly Airtex as well) pumps are used more prevalently on big block vehicles prior to 1966. Throw in several mid year, 1967 model,  production changes on the Fairlane, so early 427 cars used an AC pump, later cars used a Carter???

[Bob Gaines]

This first picture shows the AC fuel pump on 427s getting ready to be installed in Cobras, not exactly sure what year.   The second and third picture is an AC fuel pump model 0294, dated February of 1965 inside, just like the pumps on those engines in picture one.  I've seen pictures of '66 427 Fairlanes with both the AC pump and Carter pumps installed, but have no knowledge of originality or pump model number. Obviously there is only 57 of those built, but could shed light on a possible changeover to Ford using Carter more on HP big block engines than in previous years. Also, possibly many of the 66 Fairlanes were converted to electric pumps and various engines in and out of the cars while being raced makes it difficult to verify.  It seems that AC style (possibly Airtex as well) pumps are used more prevalently on big block vehicles prior to 1966. It seems there there were several mid year production changes on the Fairlane, so early 427 cars used an AC pump, later cars used a Carter???

65 would be the year of the picture given the 427 Cobras started production in 65 and the shade of the block appears black in a BW picture . Blue would show up lighter shade in a BW picture. Block color was supposed to change in approximately August of 1965 according to records . Black transmission also indicates Cobra usage.

[pbf777]

Through the magic of Google I found that the Carter 4254-S was original equipment on Chris Craft boats using the 427 Ford engine from 1966 - 1970. One place has rebuild kits that include three check valves.

     Of curiosity, do you remember the web-site where you saw this info (both the reference and the kits available), I did several searches and can't make it appear for me? 

     Thank you,
     Scott.

[pbf777]

     It's interesting, as revealed in the posted listing by 430dragpack, that the Carter #4442 pump it appears was assigned both the COAZ-D and the C7AZ-B (at a later date) numbers,...........I wonder why?  Generally one would think Ford Motor Co. would have changed the part number due to a physical component change requirement or vendor change; but Carter it appears didn't seem per the numbers to acknowledge any change?           

     Also, in photos from 430dragpack of the "AC" fuel pumps, apparently installed on the 427's in '65, are these the correct external physical presentation, and I realize it would appear they were the same 0294 number, one should expect for the chronologically later installations of the Fairlanes?  For some reason I seem to recall seeing the "AC" cast on the upper body, but perhaps I'm just confused with something else?         

     And, THANK YOU! for those whom responded to my inquiry!         

     Thank you,
     Scott.

[Bob Gaines]

     It's interesting, as revealed in the posted listing by 430dragpack, that the Carter #4442 pump it appears was assigned both the COAZ-D and the C7AZ-B (at a later date) numbers,...........I wonder why?  Generally one would think Ford Motor Co. would have changed the part number due to a physical component change requirement or vendor change; but Carter it appears didn't seem per the numbers to acknowledge any change?           

     Also, in photos from 430dragpack of the "AC" fuel pumps, apparently installed on the 427's in '65, are these the correct external physical presentation, and I realize it would appear they were the same 0294 number, one should expect for the chronologically later installations of the Fairlanes?  For some reason I seem to recall seeing the "AC" cast on the upper body, but perhaps I'm just confused with something else?         

     And, THANK YOU! for those whom responded to my inquiry!         

     Thank you,
     Scott.

I can not make it out in the picture but I would expect to see the AC trademark on the upper pump body.

[430dragpack]

I'm in the process of rebuilding my pump, but here it is compared to another vintage AC pump that is a remanufactured pump from years back, showing some physical differences.  The parts that are circled correspond to the pumps on the Cobra engines, especially if you look at the pump that is fully circled.  You can see the side step on the top section, the extra side rib on the middle section and the little gusset on the top by the mounting flange.  Yes, it does have AC on the very top.

[Royce Peterson]

Sent you a link by PM.

Through the magic of Google I found that the Carter 4254-S was original equipment on Chris Craft boats using the 427 Ford engine from 1966 - 1970. One place has rebuild kits that include three check valves.

     Of curiosity, do you remember the web-site where you saw this info (both the reference and the kits available), I did several searches and can't make it appear for me? 

     Thank you,
     Scott.

[pbf777]

................., but here it is compared to another vintage AC pump that is a remanufactured pump from years back, showing some physical differences.

     This "other" pump I'm assuming is not an AC #0294 vs. an example of changed production execution under the same part number at some other time in history?      

     And yes, I do see also many other differences in the castings of the two examples you provided; and as you indicated that your "correct" example is dated '65 as probably are the units pictured mounted on the engines and do appear similar, my next curiosity is whether the pumps made later, say in '67 also appear as such, even with a different Ford part number?       

     Thank you,
     Scott.

[430dragpack]

................., but here it is compared to another vintage AC pump that is a remanufactured pump from years back, showing some physical differences.

     This "other" pump I'm assuming is not an AC #0294 vs. an example of changed production execution under the same part number at some other time in history?      

     And yes, I do see also many other differences in the castings of the two examples you provided; and as you indicated that your "correct" example is dated '65 as probably are the units pictured mounted on the engines and do appear similar, my next curiosity is whether the pumps made later, say in '67 also appear as such, even with a different Ford part number?       

     Thank you,
     Scott.

Mine too!!   Here is the 65 date with two slashes, kind of similar to how Ford does their "date wheel" like on aluminum components.  Yes, the other pump in the pictures is not a 0294, but is a FE replacement/reman pump, merely to point out the physical differences.

[430dragpack]

Here is a picture of one of the 66 427 Fairlanes and it has an AC style pump on it.  I don't have any idea how original the car is, but thought it was interesting.