Teach me about dual quad intakes

[gimmea250swb]

What were the types and applications of dual quad Shelby intake manifolds?  I've seen a set with a small "plain" script and a set with the "normal" script.  When we're they used?  We're they over the counter or factory installed?  Thanks!

[TA Coupe]

The picture of the first intake, that one uses holley's and the second one uses Carter carburetors.

      Roy

[6s1640]

The top dual quad intake is the later version that was offered.  I believe it was referred to as the Trans Am version by hobbyist.  The SAI ad for it says it is an improvement over the prior year and was used to win the 1967 Mustang Road Race Championship, thus the name "Trans Am".  I believe this is the intake that was used by Team Cougar with the 67 Cougar Trans Am entries.  See bottom image with Dan Gurney with a playful grin.

IIRC, there are two versions of the Trans AM, FoMoCo and SHELBY.  I expect both set ups came with Holley 3360 and 3361 carbs. The SAI add say two 460 CFM carbs.

I believe the early version, middle image shown below, was a little more streetable and also used the same carbs as the Trans Am set up.  SAI add says two 460 CFM carbs.

On the CARTER dual quad, there is also a smaller lettered COBRA version.  See replies 140 and 148 on thread below for more CARTER images,add and SAI photo.

http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=6308.msg109237;topicseen#msg109237

They were all over the counter or dealer options, at least for the Mustang or GT350's.  The COBRA may be different.

(Randy, do I have it right?  Straighten me out if I am not.)

Cory

[Dan Case]

New Cobra buyers could order factory installed COBRA 2-4V induction starting in September 1963. The Carter carburetors models had been developed as Chrysler assembly line units.

Later Ford sold COBRA KIT versions that used the same intake and carburetor models but different linkage.

[shelbydoug]

The SHELBY script manifold was never a Ford part, it was a Shelby catalog item.

The original T/A manifold was a C60A identified manifold, those when installed on an original SA built race car were stamped with the ID number of those cars. Usually a two digit number.


There is a second type to those. C6ZZ-6B068-A. The second type is the one with the wrong firing order substituting cylinder #9 for #8.

Other then the different casting ID number and the wrong firing order, the manifold appears to be the same as the C60A casting.

The "explanation" that I was told as to the rationale for it's existence was that the Trans Am rules comity wanted an actual Mustang "production" manifold to certify.
In Ford numbering identification, the ZZ part of the prefix identifies a Mustang part.
(did I get that right Randy?)


Both of the Ford numbered manifolds were sold over the counter by Ford Dealers which in fact could have been Shelby authorized dealers as well, so it's entirely possible that you could have gotten either, or any of them from your parts dealer.

The SHELBY lettered manifold appears to be the same as the Ford manifold with the exception of the engineering numbers and the Ford or Shelby identification. Chronologically, it is the newest of the manifolds and likely was too late in production to actually ever to have been raced?


The size of the engine displacement, i.e., 289, 302, 331, 347, etc., determines the size of the recommended carbs (on the street).

Essentially 1848's were recommended for street 289's. I can tell you from actual experience though that 600's (1850's) or 715's (3300 & 3301) run absolutely fine on the street. It all depends on how high you want to wind out the engine.

The original T/A cars races that I saw were seemingly attempts at mass driver suicides, 7,000 rpm limits were for kids and try something like 8,200 rpm to be competitive? 

IF the manifold throttle plate bores are an indication of carburetion size, the bores fit the 3300 and 3301's perfectly. Since those are vacuum secondary carbs, the secondaries open on engine demand so essentially you are running a 460, 600, 700 double pumper with secondary bonuses so with the vacuum secondaries it's difficult to over carb the engine BUT this is all set up for manual transmission cars and running the set up in front of an automatic would be...interesting and probably challenging to boot?


To my knowledge, the dual Carter set up was never raced in Trans-Am, only the Holleys AND the racing carbs eventually wound up as dual center squirters carbs.
Drivers were complaining that the vacuum secondaries were hanging up in competition and not closing fast enough.


As far as values go? You get what you can get. Some asking prices have no concept of reality and wind up as center pieces on coffee tables. That's ok. They are interesting to look at and not too heavy to handle and pass around to guests.


At one point Ford discontinued them and sent the remaining stock to Holman-Moody.
They were listed in their "clearance sales brochure" for $50 each. Take your pick. 

[427heaven]

I have the small lettered COBRA dual quad intake on one of my cars and have the same smirk DAN is wearing when I took it to shows pre covid conditions. It runs very well but 1000 cfm of T REX gulping carbs are probably a bit much, except listening to that 7500 rpm wail at WOT makes me forget about all that fossil fuel I am burning- wasting. A well tuned 750 double pumper HOLLEY would run circles around my vintage set up but is severely lacking in the wow factor. For now I like the old school look and will leave it for the sake of THE WAY IT USED TO BE.

[shelbydoug]

I have the small lettered COBRA dual quad intake on one of my cars and have the same smirk DAN is wearing when I took it to shows pre covid conditions. It runs very well but 1000 cfm of T REX gulping carbs are probably a bit much, except listening to that 7500 rpm wail at WOT makes me forget about all that fossil fuel I am burning- wasting. A well tuned 750 double pumper HOLLEY would run circles around my vintage set up but is severely lacking in the wow factor. For now I like the old school look and will leave it for the sake of THE WAY IT USED TO BE.

With all due respect to the story line in Ford v Ferarri, Ford DOES know something about something.

If you recall, two four Holleys were on the 427 PRODUCTION engines. IF you can see through the fog of euphoria, you MIGHT notice that the carbs were mounted backwards AND what made them work as streetable, was the progressive linkage.

This made the engine run on one two barrel up to about 3,200 rpm.


Now for street use, I went with that entire original 427 set up. Not to mention the 67 GT500? Sorry. Did I just mention that?

If you say it sucks then don't complain to me, write a nasty letter to Ford telling them the are a-holes and don't know a thing about anything? Personally though, I wouldn't expect a reply?



For racing, Ford offered a different linkage for mounting the carbs forward and essentially locking out much of the progressiveness of the street linkage. Hey. For racing it IS better, I admit it.



Apparently they also like the idea of having the primary fuel bowl right up against the distributor cap, I suppose to keep everything nice and toasty warm?

I prefer the additional 1/2" of clearance provided by the reward mounting. I was convinced of this by watching the light show thrown by the running engine in the dark.

You can't even toast marshmallows with that kind of a fire?

Like  Phil Remington's character says in 'Ford v Ferrari', "sometimes they don't get out of the car alive, Shel". A thought well taken.

[427heaven]

The picture shows a 460 cfm Holley set up on a newer T/A manifold which I am sure runs quite well, but since I am not trying to set any track records with my 55 year old engine set up I can pretend I am Dan Gurney with a pre 1966 race engine program bullet under the hood. For me at this stage of the game that sweet sound that little small block makes at full song is worth the entry fee to get one of these set ups. Since I believe in the bigger is better program, my engine runs 2 500 cfm comp series carters and does pretty good on both street and the track, if you dont mind the smell of VP 110 wafting all around you it is a fun set up to run thru its paces.

[shelbydoug]

The picture shows a 460 cfm Holley set up on a newer T/A manifold which I am sure runs quite well, but since I am not trying to set any track records with my 55 year old engine set up I can pretend I am Dan Gurney with a pre 1966 race engine program bullet under the hood. For me at this stage of the game that sweet sound that little small block makes at full song is worth the entry fee to get one of these set ups. Since I believe in the bigger is better program, my engine runs 2 500 cfm comp series carters and does pretty good on both street and the track, if you dont mind the smell of VP 110 wafting all around you it is a fun set up to run thru its paces.

Mine runs on pump premium. No point of being over exposed to lead. As  there is apparently significant brain damage on my part. Others are afraid to mention it less I get violent? Then 'Chuckie' comes out to play. 

Frankly I think the 3300/3301 set up on the T/A runs the best. The Carters are a 289 Cobra set up. If they belong anywhere, that's it.

The T/A was on the Shelby prepped 'coupes'. That's the 'Mustang' set up.

There is NO need to run racing gas on a 289. It runs on pump Regular.


My T/A replaced what Randy calls the "Turd" with two 85 Mustang GT converted carbs.
That actually was nice since the idle was so clean but the headers were glowing red at idle from the lean idle. So they had to go before the primary tubes melted off.


The T/A is a very nice compromise but my speedometer only goes up to 140 so you can't see the 170 on the speedo. It's not there.

That's kind of trivial anyway since you have to look so far down the road that you can't instantly focus on the gauges plus the vibrations kind of rattle your brain and eyes to boot.


I'm well past trying to impress the 'teenie boppers' at car shows. Screw them. They can go play video games on their boom boxes or with themselves? I have no patience for that.

I'm more into pissing off Curt because he can't pass me. To each his own. 'Whatever get's you through the night, is alright' - Mr. Lennon.


Here's the thing, if you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk. The Carter set up is NOT the way to go. 'But if it makes you happy...' -Sheryl Crow.

[Royce Peterson]

The COUGAR 8V intakes were COUGAR lettered. They were sold by Shelby in the Shelby "How to Sharpen Your Cat's Claws" Cougar specific catalog. Other than the lettering on the intake and air cleaner I suspect they were identical to the SHELBY lettered version.

[propayne]

Here is a detail from the "How To Sharpen A Cougar's Claws" brochure.

- Phillip

[shelbydoug]

Here is a detail from the "How To Sharpen A Cougar's Claws" brochure.

- Phillip

AH! That's not the trans am manifold. It's the FoMoCo "high rise". It's the one that Randy refers to as the "turd".

It's really a very good manifold by I can't recall EVER having seen one lettered COUGAR as Royce suggested.

We need as many pictures as possible in this thread. Warning: if you don't do it I will, and maybe no one wants THAT! 

[propayne]

Here are a couple more shots of the engine bay of the BME Trans-Am Cougar.

The one with Dan, Bud, Parnelli and Fran posing at Bud Moore Engineering are early pics of the mule Cougar being prepped.

- Phillip

[JMobley]

Just recently finished the install of this Shelby script version with 3360/3361 carbs.

[Wedgeman]

GREAT PIC...could you please post a pic of the driver's side of your 2x4 Setup showing fuel log & linkage?  Thanks !?