Air Cleaner Lid Cobra for 67 GT500

[Kent]

Would the right lid be correct for a 67 GT500 I think this is a sand cast yes? So this is more for the earlier builds, right? How much is it worth?

[JD]

here they are rotated, also the one on the right is die-cast - note the round injection/fill marks and the spacing of the "R" and "A" on the "COBRA".  Also, note the center hole, that is an indication the lid was on a single carb intake, '68.

Also, the stamped steel bottom plates in the back ground are for single carb set-up, not for a '67..

[Kent]

Ok Bob so its not the real thing, how do you see that the right one is a repro for me it looked like a real one.

[shelbydoug]

Ok Bob so its not the real thing, how do you see that the right one is a repro for me it looked like a real one.

If I might butt in...I believe both the of the original assembly line production '67 and '68 COBRA tops are pressure cast and show the indications of that on the underside.

An exception to that in one case for the 67s is the use of the earlier 62-63-64, 427 cast tops that had the provision for the 427 fender medallion cast into it. Those were sand cast. That likely was just temporary until the COBRA tops became available.

I don't think there is any documentation as to how many cars got those other then  the engineering car -00100? Maybe I'm wrong and there is?



The one with the hole in the center is likely from a '68 that had the "recall" modification done to it.

The difference between an original assembly line 67 and a 68 would be the way that the black crinkle paint is finished.

The 68 has the edges painted. The 67 edge shows as unpainted and unpolished.


One of them that you have without the center hole is likely a reproduction. It doesn't show any indications that I can see in the pictures of having been pressure cast.

[pbf777]

One of them that you have without the center hole is likely a reproduction. It doesn't show any indications that I can see in the pictures of having been pressure cast.

     Where there any (that anyone is aware of) reproductions exhibiting the pressure casting nodes?     

     Scott.

[JD]

The early '67 GT500 were sand cast with the COBRA molded into the lid top, this transitioned to the later version that was injection/die-cast a repro is shown in the OP first image, reposted and rotated in the 1st reply, on the right but it would not have had the added hole in the top center - which was a modification to have that lid work on the '68 GT500's.

Not at my place so I don't have access to images, but this is covered in the '67 Running Changes article in the Fall 2013 issue of The Shelby American.

[shelbydoug]

The early '67 GT500 were sand cast with the COBRA molded into the lid top, this transitioned to the later version that was injection/die-cast a repro is shown in the OP first image, reposted and rotated in the 1st reply, on the right but it would not have had the added hole in the top center - which was a modification to have that lid work on the '68 GT500's.

Not at my place so I don't have access to images, but this is covered in the '67 Running Changes article in the Fall 2013 issue of The Shelby American.

...and the base plates vary and have a story also. 

Initially on the '68's there was no center hole in the lid. That was changed later in production along with a service recall to deal with customer complaints about difficulty in fastening the lid.

It was done to both the GT350's and 500's in '68. My '68 350 is -01107 and did not have the hole drilled in the top and had two studs spot welded to the steel base.

Those bases were later modified in production eliminating those studs.

[Bob Gaines]

Ok Bob so its not the real thing, how do you see that the right one is a repro for me it looked like a real one.

If I might butt in...I believe both the of the original assembly line production '67 and '68 COBRA tops are pressure cast and show the indications of that on the underside.

An exception to that in one case for the 67s is the use of the earlier 62-63-64, 427 cast tops that had the provision for the 427 fender medallion cast into it. Those were sand cast. That likely was just temporary until the COBRA tops became available.

I don't think there is any documentation as to how many cars got those other then  the engineering car -00100? Maybe I'm wrong and there is?



The one with the hole in the center is likely from a '68 that had the "recall" modification done to it.

The difference between an original assembly line 67 and a 68 would be the way that the black crinkle paint is finished.

The 68 has the edges painted. The 67 edge shows as unpainted and unpolished.


One of them that you have without the center hole is likely a reproduction. It doesn't show any indications that I can see in the pictures of having been pressure cast.

You have missed the sand cast Cobra marked lid in your line up. Sand cast finned bird lid without the bird was first. Next was the sand cast Cobra marked unpainted lid . The evolution continued with the same sand cast lid but this time black wrinkle painted. A different larger production friendly injection molded die cast wrinkle painted lid was used through the rest of production . 

[Bob Gaines]

Ok Bob so its not the real thing, how do you see that the right one is a repro for me it looked like a real one.

Kent ,in reviewing my post just now I see that I meant to write base instead of lid. The base opposite the black no hole lid is reproduction. The lid appears to be a correct early sand cast lid. The difference between the sand cast and the diecast lids besides the manufacturing method has to do with the letters . The shape,the depth,the spacing and the relief inside of letters are all original tells.  The two different original style lids being discussed share some of the same characteristics that the repros typically do not have like the faint retangular witness line to name one.   

[JD]

OK, here is from the Fall 2013 issue of The Shelby American...

(Note the bases were similar in that they too were sand-cast or die-cast to match the lid and they were not shown in the article.  The stamped steel version was not a '67 used part they were a '68 part to my understanding)

Image added: Here is a '67 BB Sand-Cast, Air Cleaner set that Bob posted previously...

[shelbydoug]

Ok Bob so its not the real thing, how do you see that the right one is a repro for me it looked like a real one.

If I might butt in...I believe both the of the original assembly line production '67 and '68 COBRA tops are pressure cast and show the indications of that on the underside.

An exception to that in one case for the 67s is the use of the earlier 62-63-64, 427 cast tops that had the provision for the 427 fender medallion cast into it. Those were sand cast. That likely was just temporary until the COBRA tops became available.

I don't think there is any documentation as to how many cars got those other then  the engineering car -00100? Maybe I'm wrong and there is?



The one with the hole in the center is likely from a '68 that had the "recall" modification done to it.

The difference between an original assembly line 67 and a 68 would be the way that the black crinkle paint is finished.

The 68 has the edges painted. The 67 edge shows as unpainted and unpolished.


One of them that you have without the center hole is likely a reproduction. It doesn't show any indications that I can see in the pictures of having been pressure cast.

You have missed the sand cast Cobra marked lid in your line up. Sand cast finned bird lid without the bird was first. Next was the sand cast Cobra marked unpainted lid . The evolution continued with the same sand cast lid but this time black wrinkle painted. A different larger production friendly injection molded die cast wrinkle painted lid was used through the rest of production .

OK but I personally have never seen an original sandcast COBRA top that others didn't argue over as being aftermarket or original. The number of original sand cast has got to be small and to MY knowledge, there is no paperwork trail of documentation with them.

Aftermarket copies, whether accurately done or not confuse the matter to me.


I acknowledge that my knowledge is not 100% comprehensive, nowhere near it and have not seen everything that ever existed. I can't speak for others on that but I certainly entertain the experience of others on the subject positively.

I suppose that when I chime in on certain discussions it is just to remind others that although some think that it is so that a subject is 100% settled, it may not be and use that as a caution before others make an expensive mistake and misjudgement.


I've seen court room "arguments" by "expert witnesses" and it's my view that it only suggests a "probability of likeliness" to the most accurate answer.

My intent is not to poison the waters, just to suggest a less then 100% yes or no answer.


As a result, all that can be arrived at here is a consensus, not a 100% scientific data answer for whatever value that is?

[Bob Gaines]

There are many copies of the sand cast lid because All of the repros I have ever seen were sand cast and not injection molded.The genuine sand cast lids have a certain amount of distinct characteristics which is how they are told apart. Some but not all of the differences could be considered nuance details which make it difficult to tell them apart unless you have somewhat close inspection.