Antifreeze in oil, HELP

[Corey Bowcutt]

I noticed last weekend I had antifreeze in my oil.  The only thing I had done to the engine other than replace the carburetor was while I replaced the carb I replaced the intake bolts because the ones that were there were ridiculous.  So I assumed I screwed up the intake seal so I removed the intake.  I cleaned up all mating surfaces and purchased new gaskets.  I ended up not using the flat cork gaskets on the china walls I used "The Right Stuff" on these flat surfaces.  I also applied a small bead of silicone around the coolant ports.  I applied "Copper Spray-a-Gasket" to just the head side of the intake gasket to help keep the gasket in place.  I installed the intake and torqued all screws per a torque procedure someone posted here on the forum for aluminum intakes. I ultimately torqued all 12 screws to 20 ft-lbs.

I felt everything went very well but I started the car and let it run for 5 minutes or so and it runs like a top.  But then I drained the oil and it again had antifreeze in it.  I am at a loss as to what has happened.  Does anyone have any suggestions for me?

Corey

[JWH]

A quick double check to start with - is the fluid in the oil anti-freeze for certain? Or is it gas? Both can make the oil very runny and muddy looking. Take a second to smell just to be certain. If it is gas, then most likely the carburetor float is stuck open and pouring gas into the engine. I ask as fixing the float is much easier to remedy than pulling off the intake and may save you a ton of work. 
       If it is for certain antifreeze, it would point to the intake manifold gaskets not sealing around the coolant ports. Unfortunately, that means draining the coolant and pulling the intake again. You mention you put some silicon around the water ports of the intake gasket. Permatex makes a separate product for thermostats and temperature sensors that has a very high resistance to antifreeze. Give this a try around the water ports on both sides of the intake gasket and hopefully, that will seal things up. Here is a link:

https://www.permatex.com/products/gasketing/gasket-makers/permatex-water-pump-thermostat-rtv-silicone-gasket/?locale=en_us

Jeff

[Corey Bowcutt]

Jeff,

That is an interesting thought.  I do not smell gas but do not smell antifreeze either for that matter.  Would it have a strong gas smell? Could the carb dump enough gas into the oil with 5 minutes of running to make the oil very runny?  I put fresh 20W-50 oil in and run it fort 5 minutes then drain it.  What comes out even before I get the oil plug out is very runny like water.  When I remove the oil filter again it seems like water is coming out.  But I do not smell ethylene glycol but it just seems so runny and cloudy.  I could fill it up with oil and put the old carb on and see if it fixes the issue.  I have already burned thru 15 quarts of oil diagnosing what is another 5?

Corey

[s2ms]

How much coolant came out when you drained it? If it wasn't very much you might try briefly running the engine and draining/checking the oil again before you tear everything apart. In my experience it's pretty common to have a small amount of coolant spill into the block when removing the intake. When I've seen this the oil has been clean on the second drain.

[Rukiddin]

My Ford spec book calls for 32-35 ft lbs on intake bolts. I would re-torque and retest. Water or a/f will settle to botton of pan,that is why when you loosen/remove drain plug you get that first,then oil. Good luck

[JWH]

What size engine? Is it a cast iron intake or aluminum?

My Ford shop manual shows 20-22 ft/lb for the 289 and 302 engines and 32-35 ft/lb for the 390 and 428 engines. *These specs would be for the cast iron intake manifolds*

[Corey Bowcutt]

It is a 302 with aluminum intake.  I read a lot of posts on torqueing and some said to not go over 18.  I did go to 20 but tempted to go to 22.

Corey

[shelbydoug]

Since you just went through this with new intake gaskets, it's less likely that the intake gaskets are leaking but as I pointed out, the left rear corner is the most susceptible to leaks.

The 302 heads have dowels installed in them to hold the intake gaskets in correct alighnment

You might want to check the torque on the intake bolts as well but remember the caution on the bolt tightness.

Take off a valve cover and look for anti-freeze in the oil drain back area of the head.


How old are the head gaskets? Not to be an alarmist but that rear corner of the head gasket is a possibility of the source as well.

Take a clean paper towel and dip it in what you think is the anti-freeze in the oil. Is it green? It could be just water vapor in the engine from sitting. Check that your pcv is connected. Run the car again until it gets good and hot and the water vapor stops coming out of the exhausts.

My 302 can accumulate quite a bit of water in the crankcase due to disuse and weather changes and can take quite a while for the engine to burn it off. That happens through the pcv system.


On the aluminum intake manifold that you have, is there a noticeable amount of corrosion around the water transfer ports?


Be patient. All is not necessarily lost here. Also check the anti-freeze volume to see if it is noticeably lower level.

[davez]

The oil you just drained. Pour it into a milk carton and let it sit. It will separate. If its antifreeze you will see the layer of coolant / water completely different from the rest of the oil. If gas it'll probably stay mixed or evaporate out.
dz

[Bob Gaines]

My Ford spec book calls for 32-35 ft lbs on intake bolts. I would re-torque and retest. Water or a/f will settle to botton of pan,that is why when you loosen/remove drain plug you get that first,then oil. Good luck

The specs are for cast Iron  OP has aluminum . You risk ruining your intake by using those cast iron specs. I would not run the car. Water will evaporate or steam off when it gets hot. Anti freeze on the other hand will not. It is very risky when it gets into the oil . You run the risk of ruining your bearings if any of the antifreeze circulates through them.

[Corey Bowcutt]

I have changed the oil 3 times in the last week trouble shooting.  The first oil change oil has been sitting in a milk jug since last Saturday.  There does not appear to be separation.  It is all just milky brown but I do not smell gas.

[Bob Gaines]

Obviously you are going to have to redo the intake installation .It apparently has to do with how you are installing the intake. It is sometime hard to diagnose a problem every step of the way by remote control. I will let others advise you in that regard.  I would however advise you to try and get any and all of the antifreeze out of your cooling system before starting on the reinstall of the intake . I keep one of the prestone engine flush kits handy for just such things. https://www.ebay.com/itm/363249587998 . There are how to videos also. You will need to remove the thermostat out of the housing and reinstall if trying to flush without the engine running(which is what i would do).  Given the problems you seem to be having it would be only prudent to run water only in your cooling system until you resolve the issue . After the issue is resolved you can drain water out and add anti freezr in. 

[shelbydoug]

My suggestion, BEFORE you start pulling everything apart again OR draining ANYTHING, invest in a cooling system PRESSURE TEST KIT.

They are about $100, but well worth it. Pressurize the system. See if it will hold pressure or if it indicates a leak and shows you where it is.

You want to eliminate the bad things that might have happened, like a crack in a casting somewhere and you want it to aid you in definitely locating the leak.

I find that the test kit is worth it's weight in gold for just testing the pressure holding ability of the radiator caps. Everything else is just a bonus.

[Steve McDonald Formally known as Mcdonas]

Cory, I've got a pressure tester you can use
Also you might want to invest in something called BlockCheck, tests for blow head gaskets, cracked heads, etc
$24 at Harbor Freight
https://www.harborfreight.com/combustion-leak-detector-64814.html?cid=paid_google%7C%7C%7C64814&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIs7GGsvz77gIVFKGzCh0PYAAUEAQYAiABEgKecvD_BwE

[Corey Bowcutt]

Thank you Steve I will check it out.  I figure the leak tester would indicate if you have a leak but if the leak is internal it would not help find it.  But would be a useful tool.

I switched to my old carb and torqued all 12 bolts to 22 ft lbs and the problem persists and it is clearly antifreeze.

So I removed the intake again and found significant antifreeze in the rear passenger side of the block so In suspect this is the leaking port.  I am going to have to tweak my procedure a bit and hope for the best.

Corey