King of the Hill Drag Race / Factory Appearing , Slick Tire , any interest????

[2112]

   Doug ,
      Speak for yourself! My '66 runs 11.5s with an all iron 331 that is well within the guide lines of what I have laid out. A slightly warmed over  '68 KR with a 4.30 gear and a 10" slick would be in the 12s with EASE.
    This deal is not for the "easy chair" racer. Careful scrutiny of the guide lines could produce 600 hp engines. THAT will propel a car into the 11s easily. I've left some serious loop holes in on purpose.

With iron manifolds and stock exhaust. Not happening. Low 14's maybe.

You might want to see what the guys in F.A.S.T. are doing.

I was very surprised.

[427heaven]

I am trying to be very excited for this to possibly happen. Trouble is there are so many road blocks its going to take some serious thought to make it happen. Looks like were sorta following FAST rules, with that said it would be doubtful anyone could make 600 HP sipping- breathing thru a straw. I read the rules so many times my screen got blurry but it appears they know how to slow the cars down because you cant make serious power with stock intake and exhaust systems. Randy you and I spoke a long time ago at Palmdale, I was running a 66 coupe- Boss 302 powered, 4 gear, 5.14 gears, lots of cam, carb, and compression. It ran 13.20s in the high desert it had all the best parts in it. So I am doubtful a reworked small block that had to run stock valve covers, because they dont want people to run a stud girdle, roller rocker assemblies could make much more then 350 HP with standard rockers. Maybe one of our engine guys could chime in with real world numbers what a fully prepped Hipo or 302 could make HP wise and the correlating et numbers. 

[shelbydoug]

I am trying to be very excited for this to possibly happen. Trouble is there are so many road blocks its going to take some serious thought to make it happen. Looks like were sorta following FAST rules, with that said it would be doubtful anyone could make 600 HP sipping- breathing thru a straw. I read the rules so many times my screen got blurry but it appears they know how to slow the cars down because you cant make serious power with stock intake and exhaust systems. Randy you and I spoke a long time ago at Palmdale, I was running a 66 coupe- Boss 302 powered, 4 gear, 5.14 gears, lots of cam, carb, and compression. It ran 13.20s in the high desert it had all the best parts in it. So I am doubtful a reworked small block that had to run stock valve covers, because they dont want people to run a stud girdle, roller rocker assemblies could make much more then 350 HP with standard rockers. Maybe one of our engine guys could chime in with real world numbers what a fully prepped Hipo or 302 could make HP wise and the correlating et numbers. 

The NHRA hp factor is probably pretty accurate. What did your car factor out to? About 450? That's what I'd expect.

600 should be under 10 seconds, no?

[mark p]

I can't add much to the discussion, except that having been at an event where the F.A.S.T. guys were running - all I could say is WOW 
... didn't really understand the rules/limitations - but they were beautiful cars and very fast on those ridiculous skinny tires. I "thought" that one of the guys had mentioned that the tires were "special" but made to look like the original stuff from the 60's?

[2112]

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2010/10/06/f-a-s-t-racers-break-9-second-barrier

[mark p]

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2010/10/06/f-a-s-t-racers-break-9-second-barrier

^^^ a fall event at Cecil is where I saw a group of them run 

[2112]

9 second cars with cast iron exhaust manifolds.   

And that isn't a current article. I don't know how fast they were in 2019-2020

[shelbydoug]

9 second cars with cast iron exhaust manifolds.   

And that isn't a current article. I don't know how fast they were in 2019-2020

Well you should get those guys to this event. 9 second Shelby's would show up well in the press. You won't find one here with me for sure.

People believe that the "Elanor" is a real '67 GT500. They'll believe those cars too.

[Bill]

   Doug ,
      Speak for yourself! My '66 runs 11.5s with an all iron 331 that is well within the guide lines of what I have laid out. A slightly warmed over  '68 KR with a 4.30 gear and a 10" slick would be in the 12s with EASE.
    This deal is not for the "easy chair" racer. Careful scrutiny of the guide lines could produce 600 hp engines. THAT will propel a car into the 11s easily. I've left some serious loop holes in on purpose.

So, you want to race, and you are already bringing the built ringer to the track. Tested, tuned, and ready for more, with perhaps some details left out of what you did with the drivetrain and chassis this winter......Now I see where you are going with this thread 

Sounds like fun either way you go......I do suspect a deeper financial pocket will be required in order to win though, and to me, it's not about the money spent, but about the amount of fun had while at the track with like minded friends.

Bill

[427heaven]

 Looks like a great time..... But a 572 inch HEMI Sattelite is a far cry from a 65 -70 SHELBY. You are comparing a 25-30 k car to a 150k car and all of them are big blocks that were intended for all out performance. Randys idea is a unique one that a group of SHELBYS racing is a DIFFERENT TYPE of experience, but ours were designed as road going cars not straight line missles. Can you make a 289-302 based engine compete with a big inch HEMI no you cant. Can you bring out 8-10 cars that meet the criteria that was laid out for us probably not. Can someone speed shift a t-10 trans like a top loader or rock crusher... Probably not. Would a senior citizen be willing or able to run his 150k- 350k SHELBY with original parts on it? Well probably not- Its a percentage game, after reading every ones input here over the years it appears its approximately a 90- 10 split. 10 percent like concourse cars, so these are eliminated from the equation. That leaves the rest of the cars. Of those, how many cars have some substantial horsepower under the hood from stock? Probably not many, then would they be willing to make the tow to this event and are they able to make a full throttle blast in their pride and joy. If the rules were loosened up to a Mustang with a 600 inch 385 series engine I am willing to bet more would show up. A 14-15 second pass in a SHELBY just doesnt seem exciting to the masses. Hope the kinks get worked out-

[shelbydoug]

Looks like a great time..... But a 572 inch HEMI Sattelite is a far cry from a 65 -70 SHELBY. You are comparing a 25-30 k car to a 150k car and all of them are big blocks that were intended for all out performance. Randys idea is a unique one that a group of SHELBYS racing is a DIFFERENT TYPE of experience, but ours were designed as road going cars not straight line missles. Can you make a 289-302 based engine compete with a big inch HEMI no you cant. Can you bring out 8-10 cars that meet the criteria that was laid out for us probably not. Can someone speed shift a t-10 trans like a top loader or rock crusher... Probably not. Would a senior citizen be willing or able to run his 150k- 350k SHELBY with original parts on it? Well probably not- Its a percentage game, after reading every ones input here over the years it appears its approximately a 90- 10 split. 10 percent like concourse cars, so these are eliminated from the equation. That leaves the rest of the cars. Of those, how many cars have some substantial horsepower under the hood from stock? Probably not many, then would they be willing to make the tow to this event and are they able to make a full throttle blast in their pride and joy. If the rules were loosened up to a Mustang with a 600 inch 385 series engine I am willing to bet more would show up. A 14-15 second pass in a SHELBY just doesnt seem exciting to the masses. Hope the kinks get worked out-

Well I don't know about all of the kinks, but this kink is out.

[427heaven]

Agreed..... A little kinky, but that might not be all that bad ? Lets see how this goes.

[2112]

guys, you are taking the F.A.S.T. analogy too literally. It was suggested only as a guide. Not an actual format to copy.

But it does poke holes in the "I have to have headers" belief. If 572 inches with OEM iron manifolds isn't sucking thru a straw, I don't know what is.

And those straw suckers are running in the 9's.   

[shelbydoug]

guys, you are taking the F.A.S.T. analogy too literally. It was suggested only as a guide. Not an actual format to copy.

But it does poke holes in the "I have to have headers" belief. If 572 inches with OEM iron manifolds isn't sucking thru a straw, I don't know what is.

And those straw suckers are running in the 9's.   

Like I said, invite them to the competition but I wouldn't even bother to look to see if they would comply with Randy's rules, because they can't.

A nine second FE is essentially a Pro Stock FE which simply put, doesn't exist. A BB Chevy Pro Stock engine get's leased for the season  and has to be some where over $100k to build.
I'm not even sure the parts exist for that in an FE and certainly there is virtually nothing stock they could use except maybe the bolt that holds the distributor down, if in fact they still would use a distributor.

In order to run even in the 11's, there is a substantial amount of chassis work needed and it really pushes the car over the limit of what a legal street car is in spirit if not literally according to various state laws.
You need uplock shocks in the front. You need to disconnect the anti-sway bar. Stuff like that.


You CAN fairly simply get around 600hp out of an FE and 500hp out of a small block. (331-347).
A small block stock block will more readily survive 8,000 rpm hole shots but even a 427 stock block won't.



Two key elements needed are going to be an aftermarket block,i.e., a Pond 427 block. A Ford Racing Boss 302 small block, headers (big tube), probably a solid roller lifter cam, maybe titanium connecting rods, some kind of a lightened trick crank and most definitely current aftermarket cylinder heads. That's more then two huh?
Probably a lot of unobtanium components as well.

Anyone of those legal on Randy's list? Of course not but he didn't say anything about his Edelbrock ALUMINUM heads being disqualified?


I admit, he wasn't completely picking on just me. He didn't mention my nitrous oxide?


IN ADDITION, even if you do make the power and build it so it doesn't explode every run, unless you put a cage in it, it's gonna' bend up the sheet metal. I dimpled the roof on the passenger side on my '68. I was fortunate not to tear the traction bars out of the chassis.


I'm sure the event will be fun. Let me know how it was?

[2112]

Still not saying anything about pro stock.

F.A.S.T is just an example. Not an exact format.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/stephen-tate-1970-plymouth-aar-cuda/

Here is a Small block 'Cuda in the 11's. A better example.

All Without aluminum heads and headers.