Battery cable source

[Brandon]

Have original cables on my 67 GT500.  Sick of the rough starting and don't want to go with a high torque starter.

Is there anyone who sells reproduction cables with thicker gauge?  Alternatively, does anyone have a source for the battery terminals, in which case I could crimp/solder make my own?  All of the ones I can find anywhere new don't look right.

[Bob Gaines]

Have original cables on my 67 GT500.  Sick of the rough starting and don't want to go with a high torque starter.

Is there anyone who sells reproduction cables with thicker gauge?  Alternatively, does anyone have a source for the battery terminals, in which case I could crimp/solder make my own?  All of the ones I can find anywhere new don't look right.

FYI the Marti concours cables are thicker gauge then original. Kevin went to the metric equivalent more then a decade ago. The metric equivalent is a slightly thicker gauge compared to factory Ford. To help the starter on a hot summer big block engine the battery cables have to be substantially heavier gauge to have a positive effect and even then it is not guaranteed to stop the slow dragging starter problem. The cables will be noticeably non stock looking. So I take it that your are trying to keep things original looking. If I understand correctly you would rather have highly visible non original thick battery cables that will not look original but keep a sometimes dragging slow turning stock starter down low where it is not very visible . I am known to be a little picky with concours details what with my concours judging duties. With that said given in ether scenario something is not going to look original it makes more sense to me and the lesser of two evils to have the original concours looking stock size Marti battery cables in the highly visible area and a reliable fast turning compatible with stock cables gear reduced starter in the hard to see less visible area under the car. Also I dare say it will eliminate for sure your dragging starter issue. I would of course paint the gear reduced starter completely black for better stealth. Just my opinion . Others may have a different one. 

[Brandon]

My goal is actually to come up with some sort of compromise.

On the starter side, I've upgraded to a gear reduced starter on other vehicles, and they just don't sound the same as the originals.

On the cable side, I think I can get away with 4 or 2 gauge and keep it looking original.  I agree that anything thicker won't look right.

So given the current draw and lengths, one idea is:
Move from a 6 gauge to a 4 or 2 gauge cable for the short ~9" positive battery to solenoid
Move to a 0 or 00 cable from the ~32" solenoid to starter cable which is much less visible
Move from a 6 gauge to a 4 or 2 gauge cable for the battery negative and then after it loops around the side of the battery ~6" on, splice it to a 0 or 00 cable for the remaining 30" where it's not visible.

That should be "almost" electrically equivalent to all 0 or 00 gauge cable.

[Bob Gaines]

My goal is actually to come up with some sort of compromise.

On the starter side, I've upgraded to a gear reduced starter on other vehicles, and they just don't sound the same as the originals.

On the cable side, I think I can get away with 4 or 2 gauge and keep it looking original.  I agree that anything thicker won't look right.

So given the current draw and lengths, one idea is:
Move from a 6 gauge to a 4 or 2 gauge cable for the short ~9" positive battery to solenoid
Move to a 0 or 00 cable from the ~32" solenoid to starter cable which is much less visible
Move from a 6 gauge to a 4 or 2 gauge cable for the battery negative and then after it loops around the side of the battery ~6" on, splice it to a 0 or 00 cable for the remaining 30" where it's not visible.

That should be "almost" electrically equivalent to all 0 or 00 gauge cable.

First off the different sound that a gear reduced starter makes is only for 15 or 20 seconds but the non original look of fat cables with non stock markings is forever. As I said before the skinny original cables work with no problem with the gear reduced starter and you never have to worry about a dragging starter on a big block The battery cables are very visible the starter not so much. It is your car so you can do what you want but do not delude yourself into thinking that the battery cables you come up with will look anything other then after market. Just my opinion given my originality background. Regardless on what you decide I wish you success.

[Bob Gaines]

A friend reminded me that running your starter more then 10 or 15 seconds is considered excessive and can lead to some fried small gauge wires in the harness for the starter solenoid . You would be surprised .   circuit.http://www.concoursmustang.com/forum/index.php?topic=24472.msg152521#new

[Brandon]

Bob,

First, I totally respect your advice on the starter.  Bear with me while I try convincing myself it can't be done on the cable side.

So I understand, are you suggesting I can't or no one but Marti can replicate cable style/markings and terminals that look like the originals, or is it more about the cable gauge, or both?

I'm humbly seeking advice from folks like you who are used to noticing things like this.  Am I wrong in that the cable from the solenoid to the starter is normally something that's more hidden/less noticed?  Am I wrong that a 2 gauge or 4 gauge with the correct markings and terminals would not stand out like a soar thumb?  I know a 0 gauge cable would definitely stick out. 

It looks like Mansfield Mustang (presumably sourced from Marti) offers 4 gauge cables for 68's.  Not sure about the lengths though.

[roddster]

  As an aside, unless Marti Auto has already done this, you'll have to request they make the ground cable about 4" longer so you can route it correctly around the back side (fender area).

[Bob Gaines]

Bob,

First, I totally respect your advice on the starter.  Bear with me while I try convincing myself it can't be done on the cable side.

So I understand, are you suggesting I can't or no one but Marti can replicate cable style/markings and terminals that look like the originals, or is it more about the cable gauge, or both?

I'm humbly seeking advice from folks like you who are used to noticing things like this.  Am I wrong in that the cable from the solenoid to the starter is normally something that's more hidden/less noticed?  Am I wrong that a 2 gauge or 4 gauge with the correct markings and terminals would not stand out like a soar thumb?  I know a 0 gauge cable would definitely stick out. 

It looks like Mansfield Mustang (presumably sourced from Marti) offers 4 gauge cables for 68's.  Not sure about the lengths though.

I am skeptical that you will be able to make cables regardless of gauge with correct looking made on ends let alone the factory markings.

[Brandon]

  As an aside, unless Marti Auto has already done this, you'll have to request they make the ground cable about 4" longer so you can route it correctly around the back side (fender area).

Are you saying I need to request Marti add 4" to the size of their cables?

[Brandon]

I am skeptical that you will be able to make cables regardless of gauge with correct looking made on ends let alone the factory markings.

Which is why I started this thread asking if there was a source for authentic terminals. I have battery gauge crimpers, have done lead solders slugs, etc., but there's no source I'm aware of for the actual ends.  Every terminal end I've seen available would not look authentic.

[J_Speegle]

I'm humbly seeking advice from folks like you who are used to noticing things like this.  Am I wrong in that the cable from the solenoid to the starter is normally something that's more hidden/less noticed?  Am I wrong that a 2 gauge or 4 gauge with the correct markings and terminals would not stand out like a soar thumb?  I know a 0 gauge cable would definitely stick out. 

Since the first foot or so from the solenoid is very visible as is the terminal end I would not consider it hidden or something that would get over looked especially when the battery cable is very nearby for a quick visual (likely unconsciously) comparison

In reprinting a larger cable would you increase the size of the print so that it looks proportionally correct but then larger than other printing of other cables or make it the same and then draw eyes to the fact that it didn't look proportional?  All choices that will need to be considered and made if you went that route

[Bob Gaines]

I am skeptical that you will be able to make cables regardless of gauge with correct looking made on ends let alone the factory markings.

Which is why I started this thread asking if there was a source for authentic terminals. I have battery gauge crimpers, have done lead solders slugs, etc., but there's no source I'm aware of for the actual ends.  Every terminal end I've seen available would not look authentic.

Yes I agree with you. I am skeptical that you will find authentic looking ends. Even if you did find authentic original looking ends the thicker gauge wire and lack of markings on the wire is very obvious aftermarket IMO. Why put in the effort given that they will not look like authentic original. Of course this is only relevant because of your concern about original authentic appearance .That was the point I was trying to get across. In this particular case of originality and solving a big block dragging starter problem the original repro Marti cables and the gear reduced starter is the best way to solve the problem IMO. It may not be what you want but it will solve the problem for sure. Thicker cables and stock starter may or may not solve the problem and the  only thing for sure is under the hood the highly visible after market cables will not look authentic. This is not the first time this subject has come up. Myself and others over the years have used this same strategy to solve a BB dragging starter problem while maintaining a degree of authenticity under the hood.

[Brandon]

In this particular case of originality and solving a big block dragging starter problem the original repro Marti cables and the gear reduced starter is the best way to solve the problem IMO.

Bob, given I have original cables, is it even worth getting Marti repro cables given you said they're thicker?

[Brandon]

I'm humbly seeking advice from folks like you who are used to noticing things like this.  Am I wrong in that the cable from the solenoid to the starter is normally something that's more hidden/less noticed?  Am I wrong that a 2 gauge or 4 gauge with the correct markings and terminals would not stand out like a soar thumb?  I know a 0 gauge cable would definitely stick out. 

Since the first foot or so from the solenoid is very visible as is the terminal end I would not consider it hidden or something that would get over looked especially when the battery cable is very nearby for a quick visual (likely unconsciously) comparison

In reprinting a larger cable would you increase the size of the print so that it looks proportionally correct but then larger than other printing of other cables or make it the same and then draw eyes to the fact that it didn't look proportional?  All choices that will need to be considered and made if you went that route

Great question.  Realistically speaking, from an electrical perspective, the entire run is ~80".  If you keep a foot of the solenoid cable, 6" of the battery negative cable, and the 8" battery positive cable, splicing 00 cables after the visible part of the first two, you'd be almost equivalent to 00 cables all the way given you're really losing the voltage in the long negative and solenoid cable.

[TOBKOB]

If you keep a foot of the solenoid cable, 6" of the battery negative cable, and the 8" battery positive cable, splicing 00 cables after the visible part of the first two, you'd be almost equivalent to 00 cables all the way given you're really losing the voltage in the long negative and solenoid cable.

Until you factor in the resistance of the splice... 

TOB