THE RAILROAD CARS

[honker]

I think ?  I saw an image of this somewhere ? would there not be something in a newspaper ? mind you, rail yards, and rail lines were pretty private, and remote places, even back in the day. sorry, did this happen '68 ?

I'm sure you guys have covered all the angles ! what about looking somewhere like this ?

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/railroad.aspx

If you go to the last page in the link, they go back to '67


Mike

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Possible hints. Cars were stored/loaded/unloaded at Ford in Pico Rivera plant. Hadley is a tow truck company in City of Industry and also has car haulers for delivery to dealers - they go all over the LA area. Taylor yard was generally used for shipments coming out of the LA Harbor and going north. There is a yard by the Long Beach Freeway below the 60 freeway (used for E transfers) another one by Valley Blvd & Azusa in City of Industry handled a lot of cars (mainly GM coming into Socal). Also a large yard just east of Ontario Airport and another along the 10 Freeway in Colton. Santa Fe salvage etc could be anywhere as that is one of the railroads. If you can't find any news articles on the derailment I suspect they may have dumped them in one of the yards. What damage did the cars receive? That may indicate a slow speed yard spill or high speed main line wreck.

[greekz]

The two main railroads heading east at the that time would have been ATSF and Union Pacific.  In communications with BNSF(formerly ATSF) employees, the ATSF did not have salvage yards in the Los Angeles area.  Also, freight heading east would have also been transferred to Union Pacific at Taylor Yard.

Here is some information about train routes in the 1960's.

For Santa Fe, the likely freight route would have been Los Angeles to Chicago on what's now known at the BNSF transcon mainline.  That route goes from Los Angeles to San Bernardino, Barstow and Needles in California, then Kingman, Flagstaff and Winslow, Arizona.  From there, the route goes through Gallup, Belen and Clovis, New Mexico.  Then, Amarillo, Texas, through the panhandle of Oklahoma to Wellington, Kansas.  The train would then go to Emporia, Kansas by way of the transcon mainline or through Wichita to Newton, then east.  From Emporia, the train would go to Kansas City via either Topeka or the transcon mainline.  From Kansas City, the line goes through Marceline, Missouri to Fort Madison, Iowa, then through Galesburg through Joliet to Corwith Yard south of downtown Chicago.

The likely interchange points would be either Kansas City or Chicago, as Santa Fe's only line into Nebraska is a branch from Kansas to Superior, Neb., primarily used for grain shipments during harvest season.  Also, in the 1960s CB&Q, C&NW, Rock Island, Milwaukee Road and Illinois Central each had routes that covered parts of Iowa, Illinois, Nebraska and Missouri.  Given that revenue was based on line haul miles, if the auto loads originated on Santa Fe in Los Angeles, Santa Fe would have preferred to take them to Chicago for interchange.  However, the shipper may have dictated where the interchange would take place as Kansas City would be a natural because all of these railroads had lines there.

The other routes to Chicago from Los Angeles would have been Union Pacific to Omaha via Salt Lake City and Cheyenne, Wyoming, then interchanged to one of the other railroads at Omaha, Kansas City or St. Louis.  UP did not have a line to Chicago at that time.  Southern Pacific would take the shipments to Tucumcari, New Mexico, for interchange with Rock Island (Golden State Route), or to St. Louis via the Sunset Route and Cotton Belt for interchange with other railroads.  SP did not have lines to Chicago or Kansas City.  The most direct route would have been Santa Fe.

Greek

[greekz]

What damage did the cars receive? That may indicate a slow speed yard spill or high speed main line wreck.

As far as damage received I can only speak to my car and 2759.  It appears my car had some damage to the rear and 2759 had some major damage to the front sheet metal.

I also found out during correspondence with railroad personnel, if there were no fatalities or extensive property damage a report may or may not have  been generated.

Greek

[98SVT - was 06GT]

A friend of my parents was a railroad cop for Santa Fe. They had a warehouse where the stored loads that had something stolen from them until the claims were settled. I always bothered him that they'd have to store a load of shampoo for 90+ days while the theft of a couple bottles was investigated. I wonder if that is the depot mentioned? I think it was in Commerce.

[Road Reptile]

Hi all in SAAC land,
Just to answer a few questions.This was a low speed derailment most likely caused by a wheel bearing failure on the right side of the freight car. Both Shelby's I have seen had right rear damage...indicating the load shifted and caused the damage. The heavy equipment operator said he only buried 1 car in the sand and never said
a location....we were in California when he told me this...also makes sense it was in Ca. because the salvage company was in L.A. and most cars were repaired and then
sold in the L.A. area later in 1967. What is amazing is no one seems to know the process that S.A.I. went through to load cars on to trains for out of state shipment. It
makes sense that they used Fords existing system which we think was from Pico Rivera, yet we can find no proof of this and to date no former S.A.I. employees have remembered much of anything to do with trains, or who did this- so think about this--in the first few months of 67 production more than 90 of the 100 cars finished were sent out of Ca. by rail. Somebody must know the way it was accomplished. I think S.A.I. Simply called the car carrier (Hadley transport) and they trucked the cars to the
rail yard, from that point they linked into Fords distribution system and they were sent to the various out of state dealers....now we just need to prove which yard or
to ask even more questions like who figured out how to direct the shipments.
  Regards R.R.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

The heavy equipment operator said he only buried 1 car in the sand and never said a location....

You may need to widen your search. This would indicate the crash took place along highway 10 or 40 both have tracks along them. 10 was the southern route and you reach sand just east of Beaumont (Riverside county). 40 is further north and you get to the sand just past Barstow (San Bernardio county). Hard to dig clay dirt is in most of the other parts of SoCal.

[Side-Oilers]

Here's a few Qs:

Was it standard procedure for a damaged car to be buried at the crash site? 

Did a heavy equipment operator have that kind of discretion over someone else's property?

Wouldn't the insurance company have impounded the Shelby, to determine the $$ payout?

I agree with 98SVT about where the "sand" areas of SoCal, alongside the train lines, is likely to begin.   

I'm not disputing anything that anyone else knows about this event. But, I'm scratching my head at the question of a buried car. 

[Dizzy]

I have ZERO knowledge about this train accident that involved Shelby produced cars. That being said,I can only offer my own experience with insurance salvage and the amount of theft involved. In the Chicago area I worked with the Dealers Transport operation at 130th / Torrence which was very near Chicago assembly plant....they drove from the plant to the shipping yard. That shipping yard handled many Ford vehicles,from train to truck. The Ford dealer I worked at from '66 / '80 had a contract to repair damage in transit. That included thefts ( most common) and damage during transit. Many high performance cars were vandalized while in transit ( which included storage for weeks in large storage/holding lots) Black market for am-fm radios,4 speed trans,wheels/tires ,etc was at a peak then. We would take the damaged vehicle (usually Mustang,Fairlane,etc) back to our dealer and order anything /everything needed to put it back to "original". See any flaws with this yet? As with any theft and insurance claim there were those that "padded" the repair estimate....yes,people lie. I dealt with same insurance adjusters for many years that were crooked as they come. Railroad salvage companies added to the payoffs and false claims and special railroad detectives (also known for taking a little cash under the table.......
When a BIG claim happened (like Shelby cars,not cases of pickles) the politics took over. First boss on the scene made the call for "clean up" and inventory recording. Depending on the cargo (tv sets and liquor were in big demand for their resale value) the little guys were pushed aside by the big money guys. The story of a car being buried is ridiculous and may still be out there in some garage waiting for the next MM crew to "find" it. Don't waste your vacation time with a metal detector looking for that car.
I bought many,many insurance salvage cars over the years and had to deal with burned out Corvette cars that others only had a way to "repair" . Chop shops were funded by mafia,and controlled by mafia around Chicago. They might have buried Hoffa,but not a Shelby on railroad insurance 

[2112]

I have ZERO knowledge about this train accident that involved Shelby produced cars. That being said,I can only offer my own experience with insurance salvage and the amount of theft involved. In the Chicago area I worked with the Dealers Transport operation at 130th / Torrence which was very near Chicago assembly plant....they drove from the plant to the shipping yard. That shipping yard handled many Ford vehicles,from train to truck. The Ford dealer I worked at from '66 / '80 had a contract to repair damage in transit. That included thefts ( most common) and damage during transit. Many high performance cars were vandalized while in transit ( which included storage for weeks in large storage/holding lots) Black market for am-fm radios,4 speed trans,wheels/tires ,etc was at a peak then. We would take the damaged vehicle (usually Mustang,Fairlane,etc) back to our dealer and order anything /everything needed to put it back to "original". See any flaws with this yet? As with any theft and insurance claim there were those that "padded" the repair estimate....yes,people lie. I dealt with same insurance adjusters for many years that were crooked as they come. Railroad salvage companies added to the payoffs and false claims and special railroad detectives (also known for taking a little cash under the table.......
When a BIG claim happened (like Shelby cars,not cases of pickles) the politics took over. First boss on the scene made the call for "clean up" and inventory recording. Depending on the cargo (tv sets and liquor were in big demand for their resale value) the little guys were pushed aside by the big money guys. The story of a car being buried is ridiculous and may still be out there in some garage waiting for the next MM crew to "find" it. Don't waste your vacation time with a metal detector looking for that car.
I bought many,many insurance salvage cars over the years and had to deal with burned out Corvette cars that others only had a way to "repair" . Chop shops were funded by mafia,and controlled by mafia around Chicago. They might have buried Hoffa,but not a Shelby on railroad insurance 

Ahh... Ain't America great?     

[roddster]

  I can add to Dizzy's story:  I worked at the Chrysler pre-delivery center just up the tracks from 130th and Torrence in Chicago.  This was at 101st and Stony.  Worked there from 1970 to 1975.  There was a "Cassen's" transport rail head there.  Yes, numerous cars came in vandalized.  Especially hood pins, batteries, things easilt removable.
   Also, I way doubt the "car being buried" story.  Insurance compamies just don't work that way.

[gt350shelb]

I chased this  a while ago and came up  with no records ......

[BGlover67]

How cool is it to think that there might be a long lost wrecked '67 Shelby buried under the sand?  Even if it's toast, the promise of it would fuel many would be treasure seekers to get off their rear ends and buy a metal detector.  I call first dibs on the assembly line Autolite battery!

[Side-Oilers]

I hope there's not a buried Shelby out there.

Once the CA gov't nannies would hear about it, they'd have the entire desert closed, fenced off, quarantined, and declared an ecological disaster area.

The sand from hundreds of square miles would have to be removed, sifted, treated with a magic potion, and taken to a top secret holding location for 200 years. 
Replacement sand would need to be air-freighted in from the Sahara.

Then, of course, huge punative fines would be levied against the RR company, Shelby, FoMoCo, and every sub contractor that provided any part on the car. 

Oh wait, I forgot one...the air in the tires would be 51 years old, and thus full of era-correct smog. That's another public health hazard to be harshly dealt with.

So, IMO:  If it's out there, let's leave it be. 

Peel out.

[gt350cs]

Side-Oilers,

That most definitely describes the current condition of California! It's time to stop the MADNESS!!!!