Looking to build out a 67 BME TA Cougar Replica.

[shelbydoug]

  Phillip ,
      Am I looking at a "drooped front end" on Gurney's car?

  Doug , Yes all BME's were dual four according to my original engine build papers from BME

Did he make his own manifold or was he runnin' the Ford C6 T/A?

He was quite some character. I talked to him twice. If I'm a too fast talkin" NY'er, I don't know what he could be classified as? It was like talking to an electric typewriter going 140 words a minute.

He wouldn't sell me a box intake for my Cleveland. "You ain't nobody "boy"! You can't have one of these! NO SA!"  Yikes! 

"What a piece of work "man" is!

[gt350hr]

   Yes he ran the T/A dual four, well one of the three different part numbered ones. He did you a favor by not selling you a box manifold for a 351C, they are losers. The D1ZX FA ran circles around it except when it raced in circles.
   Bud( rip) didn't care much for "fast talkin' city slickers", you are right about that.

[shelbydoug]

   Yes he ran the T/A dual four, well one of the three different part numbered ones. He did you a favor by not selling you a box manifold for a 351C, they are losers. The D1ZX FA ran circles around it except when it raced in circles.
   Bud( rip) didn't care much for "fast talkin' city slickers", you are right about that.

It wasn't so much that I was fast talkin', he just couldn't pronounce my name and couldn't spell W.

[Royce Peterson]

I have no idea what Sebring looked like back then. But it sure looks like the pit area at Green Valley back then with the cones laid out to make a road course using the drag strip as a straightaway.

My guess is Sebring, since it looks like Gurney's Cougar has the Magstar wheels.

But I am not familiar with the look of Sebring and I would need to double check to make 100% sure.

As you well know, by the end of the season the BME Cougars shed quite a bit of their front ends!

- Phillip

[Royce Peterson]

Looking at online photos it appears the TA Cougars had Torque Thrust D wheels at Green valley and Gurney was in the #98 Cougar for the win so that is not it. The photo looks more like Lime Rock Connecticut to me where Gurney was driving the #16 car with the early Mag Star wheels.

[propayne]

According to my sources, Gurney and Parnelli went to Indianapolis to run the 500 during the 1967 Lime Rock TA race.

Bud Moore put Peter Revson and Ed Leslie in the Cougars and Revson won with a two-lap victory over Donohue's Camaro and Titus' Mustang.

And yes Randy, the drop from the base of the Cougar's windshield to the grill looks pretty steep!

And you can see how Bud had the Cougar's wheel wells cut and pounded out to fit the wheels and tires.

- Phillip

[PrettyMuchAShelbyGuy]

Correct, the BME Cougars ran 2 - 4bbl Holley's (390 CFM each if memory serves)

@GT350hr, do you mean dropped?  They took their's down over an inch if I understood correctly..  Shelby did 1", BME did like 1.75 I believe.
Looking at the pics, I see Phillips point, but the body line looks straight.  If the grille was cut down, the body line  would be off.... Maybe I'm not following?

@Phillip If you haven't seen it, here's a great 3 part series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM
Go to 1:31 on the 2nd video for Green Valley video.  I just re-watched.  Looks like Torque Thrusts to me on the GV video.

Another good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOajM9PRP88

@ShelbyDoug, you need a Cleveland 'box' intake still?  I know who has one.

@GT350hr, correct!  They are "wall art" IMO...

@Royce, yes.  Sebring did not (does not) have trees like that.  Right on the Torque Thrusts.  Guessing Lime Rock as you say.

[shelbydoug]

Correct, the BME Cougars ran 2 - 4bbl Holley's (390 CFM each if memory serves)

@GT350hr, do you mean dropped?  They took their's down over an inch if I understood correctly..  Shelby did 1", BME did like 1.75 I believe.
Looking at the pics, I see Phillips point, but the body line looks straight.  If the grille was cut down, the body line  would be off.... Maybe I'm not following?

@Phillip If you haven't seen it, here's a great 3 part series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epz2Ari5SEM
Go to 1:31 on the 2nd video for Green Valley video.  I just re-watched.  Looks like Torque Thrusts to me on the GV video.

Another good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOajM9PRP88

@ShelbyDoug, you need a Cleveland 'box' intake still?  I know who has one.

@GT350hr, correct!  They are "wall art" IMO...

@Royce, yes.  Sebring did not (does not) have trees like that.  Right on the Torque Thrusts.  Guessing Lime Rock as you say.

A BME box, no. That was settled long ago. In fact it might have been a 2-4 I was looking for and was making the rounds of who might have still had one? That was '77-78 or around there.

I was actually hoping that H-M had made thier own along the lines of the 289 T/A since they made a lot of "experimental" stuff and were credited with things like the Detomaso Pantera Weber manifold but no dice. The time of the 2-4 had passed.

No, that's my Pantera. It's settled. A3 heads with matching Weber manifold, 48 ida's and 180 headers. Done 600hp. 450 torque. That's enough. Too expensive to break the ZF.


I personally went with a 1.5" drop with ball joint wedges. Smooth as silk with great stability. 1-1/8" front bar. No bar in the rear, one big leaf added.

I noticed that one on several R models, post SA. No Konis's in the rear. Cure-rides with the big pistons. Smooth.

Big Ford front disc's. Lincoln Veralles rear discs and banjo. Looks stock except a little low in the front. No tech's around except Randy waving black flags at the drag strip. Some people? 


I don't see 390's for carbs but BME was a bit of a lone wolf radical so maybe? I'm still playing the carbs game but 3300 and 3301 work really well but 1850's aren't bad either.

A pair of 600dp's might be the way to go on a comp car doing away with the progressive linkage but are too much for the street.


The 2-4 FoMoCo isn't bad port matched, but won't take the 700's. The C6 will. That's what I see the difference as.  Randy calls it the turd but that must be box stock? Why worry about tech inspection now? Is there someone who is going to do an engine volume test on you? KEEP Randy away from the car. 

Give him a plate of home made brownies. By the time he finishes them, he'll forget what he was doing.

[427heaven]

He and others from down around hickory holler, had a saying that I hold near and dear, just because we talk slow dont mean we think slow. That speaks volumes .

[shelbydoug]

He and others from down around hickory holler, had a saying that I hold near and dear, just because we talk slow dont mean we think slow. That speaks volumes .

Talk slow? No, no. He was like a human buzz saw. Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. You needed high performance ears to follow him.

[propayne]

Hmmm, is that not the "Webster Turns" at Sebring?

That is the only race that; 3 BME Cougars raced at the same time, the Cougars ran Magstar wheels and that Gurney's Cougar was configured like that.

Here are a couple of pics from the fantastic book "Trans-Am, the Pony Car Wars 1966-1972" by Dave Friedman.

Looks like Dick Thompson's number 11 Shelby Mustang is in the same corner.

- Phillip

[SFM5S000]

Looking at online photos it appears the TA Cougars had Torque Thrust D wheels at Green valley and Gurney was in the #98 Cougar for the win so that is not it. The photo looks more like Lime Rock Connecticut to me where Gurney was driving the #16 car with the early Mag Star wheels.

Those Torque Thrust D's would have been these: (see pics) this set ended up on the late Walt Boeningers (RIP) NorCal Shelby's 67 SAI built (#23 of 26 Group II) TA Mustang Coupes aka KodeKey Electronics livery car.
Look closely at the center reads: "Team Cougar" 67 F8.

These were the magnesium TA wheels. There also happens to be a set for sale on eBay #333816912400 currently running that have the correct spoke profile. They are 15x8 and 15x9's (not my auction) expensive at $7K.

You mentioned you like to "do it right".

You'll also need something like these. a Jones Tach drive and distributor. Good luck on finding a BME/Jones version like the one in the photo. (These ARE mine).

Cheers,
~Earl J

[SFM5S000]

For a street driven car the magnesium wheels wouldn't be wise especially 50 year old+ wheels. A set of PS Engineering (Phil Schmidt's) TA wheels in a 15x8 provided you can pry a set away from someone would be ideal.
Here's a closer peek at that JONES tach.

Cheers,
~Earl J

[shelbydoug]

You mentioned you like to "do it right".

Is that a political statement?

Even so, kinda' pricey to do these days and open to interpretation?

Earl, that tach must be noisy with that cable drive, no?

[427heaven]

The coolness factor is thru the roof, the only saving grace is the initial cost of the car.