1967 Shelby GT500 - #702

[Shelby_r_b]

Maybe I'm being too picky, but it's hard to see cars listed as "Concours Nut and Bolt Restoration" when you see top stripes and the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker right off the bat.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-327274/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/

Am I just being an a-hole? 

[Richstang]

Maybe I'm being too picky, but it's hard to see cars listed as "Concours Nut and Bolt Restoration" when you see top stripes and the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker right off the bat.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-327274/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/

I'm I just being an a-hole? 

It certainly looks like a nut and bolt restoration, the only question is who's concours rules did they follow. Most of us here are biased and will say it does not meet SAAC standards when we see those obvious mistakes. It would probably do just fine at a concours d elegance type show.

You're educated in basic factory specs, not picky...there's a difference. If you were rude to the seller that would put you on the other side.

[Chad]

I know a little about the car.  I have spoken to the owner, who restored it.  Nice guy but he is a correct expert.  He owns Penn-Ohio Corvettes.  They restored it.  A few things incorrect.  Painted the four speed blue, used repro interior, etc.  They did use a scott fuller exhaust.

[Bob Gaines]

I know a little about the car.  I have spoken to the owner, who restored it.  Nice guy but he is a correct expert.  He owns Penn-Ohio Corvettes.  They restored it.  A few things incorrect.  Painted the four speed blue, used repro interior, etc.  They did use a scott fuller exhaust.

Workmanship translates well across the board between car marques.The restorer most likely does Corvettes correct as you say. Some restorers (not all) or people who admire their work think that  because they have knowledge in one car Marque means that they think it is no problem for them to have the same level of knowledge in others. I am not saying that is the case here because I don't know the restorer.  I do know however that there are more then just a few things incorrect on this Shelby besides the hidden Shelby 101 things you mentioned. It still looks to be a extremly nice car incorrect detailing not withstanding.

[SCJSTU]

Absolutely love that color combo

[427heaven]

That sure is a beauty, lets not kick out the SUPER MODELS from our party because she has a pimple somewhere...

[Shelby_r_b]

That sure is a beauty, lets not kick out the SUPER MODELS from our party because she has a pimple somewhere...

I hear ya. But, with an estimate of $225K to $250K... feels more like MRSA versus a pimple. 

[tesgt350]

Maybe I'm being too picky, but it's hard to see cars listed as "Concours Nut and Bolt Restoration" when you see top stripes and the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker right off the bat.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-327274/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/

Am I just being an a-hole? 

SO, what you are saying is, NO 1967 Shelby with "Over The Top" Stripes should ever be in a Concours Class?  Weren't many of them Dealer Installed?  Isn't Dealer Installed items allowed and accepted?

[Shelby_r_b]

Maybe I'm being too picky, but it's hard to see cars listed as "Concours Nut and Bolt Restoration" when you see top stripes and the infamous "Caution Fan" sticker right off the bat.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0518-327274/1967-shelby-gt500-fastback/

Am I just being an a-hole? 

SO, what you are saying is, NO 1967 Shelby with "Over The Top" Stripes should ever be in a Concours Class?  Weren't many of them Dealer Installed?  Isn't Dealer Installed items allowed and accepted?

Others chime in, if I'm wrong, but to SAAC the word "Concours" is synonymous with a car being in the condition it would have been when it left the factory.  No 67s were delivered with top stripes from the factory; therefore, there is a significant point deduction for having top stripes on a 67 in SAAC judging.

Last year at SAAC 42, there was a BEAUTIFUL 67 that was judged, but received a large deduction for top stripes.  There was almost no way that car could have gotten Gold with the top stripes, if I remember correctly, based on that point deduction.

I'm not saying that a 67 with tops stripes shouldn't be in a concours class.  What I am saying is that people tend to throw the word "Concours" around without regard for the particulars of a true concours car.  And, for those who don't know what they are looking at, it can diminish the value of being a true "concours" car and / or raise the perceived value of the car inappropriately.

BTW - I LOVE a good "Day 2" car.  I just don't like when someone calls it "Concours".

Just my thoughts 

[shelbydoug]

Concours is still used as a generic term describing the condition of the car.

Maybe it should be used in lower case as an indication?

[JD]

Others chime in, if I'm wrong, but to SAAC the word "Concours" is synonymous with a car being in the condition it would have been when it left the factory.  No 67s were delivered with top stripes from the factory; therefore, there is a significant point deduction for having top stripes on a 67 in SAAC judging.

Last year at SAAC 42, there was a BEAUTIFUL 67 that was judged, but received a large deduction for top stripes.  There was almost no way that car could have gotten Gold with the top stripes, if I remember correctly, based on that point deduction.

I'm not saying that a 67 with tops stripes shouldn't be in a concours class.  What I am saying is that people tend to throw the word "Concours" around without regard for the particulars of a true concours car.  And, for those who don't know what they are looking at, it can diminish the value of being a true "concours" car and / or raise the perceived value of the car inappropriately.

BTW - I LOVE a good "Day 2" car.  I just don't like when someone calls it "Concours".

Just my thoughts  :)

Concours is still used as a generic term describing the condition of the car.

Maybe it should be used in lower case as an indication?

I agree with both above.  Not that the stripes will keep a car out of judging but they will cause a points deduction UNLESS there is documentation stating the stripes were added prior to delivery to the first owner.  That documentation is rare,  as Bob G and others have stated the term "dealer installed" is often used to wave a magic wand for erasing an issue.

Add the stripes if you want/like them (it's your car and preference) but in SAAC judging they may (without documentation) deduct from the points so don't be surprise if/when it happens.

[tesgt350]

By the way, how many Points are deducted and is it that same Number Automatically?

[shelbydoug]

There are some of these cars that are in some eyes more desirable as "Day 2" cars because people want to actually drive them and in many cases drive them hard.

In SOME cases, putting them back to exactly stock does not make them more driveable.

A good example of that to me would be putting Goodyear Polyglass tires on the car.

So the answer is that there is no simple answer or simple formula. It really depends on the situation and if there was a person that "had to have a '67 WITH Lemans stripes" because it made it more enjoyable to drive and own, the car is more desirable, there is the answer for that person.

From what I am seeing, that seems to bare out in the "marketplace" ? Very high points "Concourse" cars are not necessarily more valuable at resale then an accurate "driveable" car is.

Because seemingly every buyer is different, there is little that is completely predictable except possibly, a "completely wrong" car?

[Bob Gaines]

There are some of these cars that are in some eyes more desirable as "Day 2" cars because people want to actually drive them and in many cases drive them hard.

In SOME cases, putting them back to exactly stock does not make them more driveable.

A good example of that to me would be putting Goodyear Polyglass tires on the car.

So the answer is that there is no simple answer or simple formula. It really depends on the situation and if there was a person that "had to have a '67 WITH Lemans stripes" because it made it more enjoyable to drive and own, the car is more desirable, there is the answer for that person.

From what I am seeing, that seems to bare out in the "marketplace" ? Very high points "Concourse" cars are not necessarily more valuable at resale then an accurate "driveable" car is.

Because seemingly every buyer is different, there is little that is completely predictable except possibly, a "completely wrong" car?

Yes, there is nothing wrong with day 2 mods if that is your intent. In the case of the car #702 that is not the case . This is a extremely nice car. It is obvious the intent was to try and return the car to a state of factory stock. The context in which Mecum uses the word "Concours"in relation to the description of Concours is no doubt referring to factory stock. It is not a generic term for excellence in this instance.  The fact that the auction company makes claims of a concours nut and bolt restoration is what is in contention and why some negative comments were made . The top end retail price expected had something to do with it also.  When you claim a high standard like the Mecum description does and with a hefty price you had better be the high standard or if not expect push back. With the obvious factory looking intent in mind there are a number of Shelby 101 mistakes that can be seen in the engine compartment. If the same percentage of mistakes in detailing are on the unseen underside, suspension ,and trunk given the already mentioned non correct items as are in the engine compartment I would guesstimate given my judging background a high bronze level car. Other judges may think differently. That would be at a SAAC or MCA national show.  Maybe be a little more and it may be a little less. That is still heads and shoulders over 98 percent of the cars like it out there. It is not any higher most likely because of lack of knowledge of Shelby/ Mustang assemblyline build techniques that the restorer didn't have.The restorer may have more knowledge with other makes and models.  Good workmanship appears evident in the pictures from what can be seen even with the detail shortcomings.Just trying to explain the reason why there was push back on the "Concours" details.

[Chad]

Guys I am not trying to kick this car because it is a beautiful, good car and my favorite color combination, but it has a lot of correcting to be done to it.  Front suspension is repo.  They did save the rear leaf spring that has the numbers on it but then used repop front suspension.  So they tried to do the correct thing but when it got to be to much trouble they used repop.  It has had a full floor put in as well.  I only say this because I do not want anyone on the forum to pay big bucks and then have to spend $40,000 to correct everything.

I really did my due diligence on this car because I was interested in buying it.  There are more things that need to be fixed that I have not listed.  The reserve if very high and and when you add up everything that needs to be corrected you will be upside down.