1967 Shelby GT500 - #702

[2112]

Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?

[shelbydoug]

  I've been in a couple of judging situations where the item was suggested to be "Dealer installed".  O-K then, show me the receipt.

That's what I was asking.  If a Customer wanted a Shelby and said I will buy it if you add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work, would the LeMans Stripes STILL receive a Deduction?  In either case, WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?

As stated in reply #10:
Not that the stripes will keep a car out of judging but they will cause a points deduction UNLESS there is documentation stating the stripes were added prior to delivery to the first owner.   

That documentation will need to be as you stated "...add the LeMans Stripes and the Dealer did so as well as listed it in the Sales Paper Work,..." on the selling dealers paper work from the time.

BUT, I am still waiting on an answer to my original question........" WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?"

I can't answer that. Only the judges can BUT I think what it would come down to would be IF ALL THINGS WERE GIVEN EQUAL, a car going for gold with stripes is not going to be permitted to beat a car without stripes. Therefore the point deduction would be appropriate to produce those results.

Does that mean that the Judges would conspire? No. Conference. Synonyms with similar meanings but still different enough to avoid a Grand Jury returning an indictment. Theoretically. Depends on who's sitting on that Jury? 

[Bob Gaines]

Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?

Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.

[gt350cs]

What is really funny is how often we see "with the rare stripe delete option". Always makes me laugh!

[Shelby_r_b]

What is really funny is how often we see "with the rare stripe delete option". Always makes me laugh!

Amen to that!  I remember an episode of "What's My Car Worth" where they were highlighting a white 1967 Shelby GT500.  And, Keith Martin referred to it as a "rare stripe delete".   

Also, the representative thought the car would hammer for $215K, Keith said $150K...it hammered for $130K. 

[roddster]

  I'm just going to add that it depends on the judging team, and it depends on the show, and it depends if it is a National show, regional, local.   I'm also going to add that some of us are just judging the car to the written standards.  If not, then lets just go back to the old 1st, 2nd, 3rd.

[J_Speegle]

BUT, I am still waiting on an answer to my original question........" WHAT are the Points deducted and are they Automatic and is it the same Number at every SAAC Show?"

Not sure what you mean by "automatic" 

If the detail is not original to the car and per the rules then I guess you could apply the word or use "expected" at an annual convention

Are the points always the same every year?  I would expect (don't judge that class but I can draw from experiences) that since it's pretty much the same team every year that there is a typical number of points taken on those items that they see over and over based on how great an impact the item is to the others in the same category and how many points total in that category.  This is referred to a weighted deductions

The challenge here is has there been enough 67's shown at SAAC annually for the team to establish a pattern or common practice. Given the cars in the past I'm not sure if there have been many 67's shown at the annual national show as the expectations are high and the word gets out.

Just what I've seen and would expect given my experiences with the members of the judging team but can't speak for them or others feelings and experiences may differ

[T-Bone68]

Towards the bottom of the description they state this car is one of only 35 shipped without the smog equipment.  Can't be true, is it?

[gt350cs]

T-bones68:

My records indicate about 97 GT350 with smog and 496 GT500 including the red GT500 convertible.

Still trying to reconfirm my numbers and could be off, but not by much.

Dennis

[shelbydoug]

Towards the bottom of the description they state this car is one of only 35 shipped without the smog equipment.  Can't be true, is it?

It would show in the Shelby serial number.

It would read67400xxxxx. The last zero would indicate a "base car" built with no thermactor. Acar with thermactor would be a 2 instead of a 0.

This is how the factory kept track of the models built and available.

If it has a 2 AND the seller is claiming it was delivered without the thermactor that IS NOT CONSISTANT with what we know about these cars. Mecum is not stating the entire serial number. That's more a reflection on their lack of specific knowledge rather then a security issue. If they claim security, that just shows further indication of their ignorance on the subject.

Caution should always prevail and ask them for the entire Shelby serial number.

I would think that there are more BASE models built than anything else? Thermactor cars would go to states that required them like California. My car, 3074, which was sent to NY did not and as such is a 400 car.

My Registry shows this car as 67400F8U00702. That's a "base 4 speed model". No air. No Thermactor. Brittany blue. Parchment interior. No Lemans stripes. 

The way they have written the specs tends to suggest ignorace on their part. That doesn't mean the car isn't legit, just that they are stupid.

[Richstang]

Here's how they arrived at 1 of 35.

There's about 302 Brittany Blue GT500s
of those about 60 have parchment interiors
of those about 48 have speed transmissions
of those about 35 have no thermactor (400F packages)

[Richstang]

Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?

Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.

I have only found one car noted with rally stripes on the window sticker, of the few I've gathered. (It could very well be a reproduction.)
The Vehicle Invoice did NOT show the stripes, so at best it could be dealer added, but not factory.

[shelbydoug]

Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?

Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.

I have only found one car noted with rally stripes on the window sticker, of the few I've gathered. (It could very well be a reproduction.)
The Vehicle Invoice did NOT show the stripes, so at best it could be dealer added, but not factory.

As far as I know the SS stripe is a Mel Burns Ford add on. It is not something that was done at SA. It was done at Mel Burns Ford.

My car was originally sold by Gotham Ford. According to the original owner, who I spoke to, it was driven to LA by it's original owner. While there the car the car was serviced at Mel Burns Ford.

He didn't rember why the SS stripe was added to it, but it was.


The copy of the invoice that you want to see is the one that Dave Mathews has. I'm pretty sure those are the copies of the SA invoices the cars shipped with, not something a dealer added on.

This is a similar controversy as a "dealer installed 427".

Stating that the stripes are factory installed is more of an inaccuracy rather then out and out dishonesty.

[Bob Gaines]

Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?

Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.

I have only found one car noted with rally stripes on the window sticker, of the few I've gathered. (It could very well be a reproduction.)
The Vehicle Invoice did NOT show the stripes, so at best it could be dealer added, but not factory.

As far as I know the SS stripe is a Mel Burns Ford add on. It is not something that was done at SA. It was done at Mel Burns Ford.

My car was originally sold by Gotham Ford. According to the original owner, who I spoke to, it was driven to LA by it's original owner. While there the car the car was serviced at Mel Burns Ford.

He didn't rember why the SS stripe was added to it, but it was.


The copy of the invoice that you want to see is the one that Dave Mathews has. I'm pretty sure those are the copies of the SA invoices the cars shipped with, not something a dealer added on.

This is a similar controversy as a "dealer installed 427".

Stating that the stripes are factory installed is more of an inaccuracy rather then out and out dishonesty.

First off at least in my post I mentioned Mel Burns Ford produced the Super Snake (which includes the stripes). The work was blessed by SA for all practical purposes as a extension of the factory effort. 

[shelbydoug]

Has there ever been documentation of LeMans stripes on the car before it's initial sale?

Yes,the 427 Mel Burns Ford produced Super Snake, although the stripes are a little different then what PO's typically paint on their cars. I have not heard of any others. Our esteemed 67 Shelby Registrar may have more info.

I have only found one car noted with rally stripes on the window sticker, of the few I've gathered. (It could very well be a reproduction.)
The Vehicle Invoice did NOT show the stripes, so at best it could be dealer added, but not factory.

As far as I know the SS stripe is a Mel Burns Ford add on. It is not something that was done at SA. It was done at Mel Burns Ford.

My car was originally sold by Gotham Ford. According to the original owner, who I spoke to, it was driven to LA by it's original owner. While there the car the car was serviced at Mel Burns Ford.

He didn't rember why the SS stripe was added to it, but it was.


The copy of the invoice that you want to see is the one that Dave Mathews has. I'm pretty sure those are the copies of the SA invoices the cars shipped with, not something a dealer added on.

This is a similar controversy as a "dealer installed 427".

Stating that the stripes are factory installed is more of an inaccuracy rather then out and out dishonesty.

First off at least in my post I mentioned Mel Burns Ford produced the Super Snake (which includes the stripes). The work was blessed by SA for all practical purposes as a extension of the factory effort.

Yes you did. All absolutely true as is not factory installed. Accuracy is important isn't it?