Black 1968 GT500KR on BAT

[J_Speegle]

I'd say it doesn't matter to most of us like me who watch in amusement that someone with that type of disposable income isn't smart enough to do some due diligence on a car they are buying.................

The issue or problem is this can "hurt" all of us and the hobby. We all hopefully understand that the wealth are likely driving the value of most of our cars and when one or more feel that they were sold something that they were not fully aware of they aren't happy, and he/she tells a few of their friends and they tell others. Next thing you know they are buying art, sail boats or that third or fourth home.

Memories of a poor purchase (will leave it at that) can last as long or longer as memories of an enjoyable one.  Many of us can recall examples of this taking place - some of refer to those as "that guy" incidents

Yes we can't lead all the horses the horses to water nor make them drink but we also can't bring that horse back to life after they have perished from the lack of water.

If the buyer is as informed as possible personally at that point I agree - His money and choice but have not seen anything to suggest that so far. We'll see if and when they show up here

[J_Speegle]

And, to clarify my position on this Shelby sale:  There is good to be had from an accurate discussion of what something is, particularly in the light of attempting educate the interested but less informed on the particular subject; but also to a great degree many of these old car subjects are solely whim participation events (aka. a hobby!), and here, if the seller is satisfied, and the buyer is happy, it was a good transaction.     

In general would agree, but when it this "happy" measured?

Is it when the purchase is made or when the new owner discovers exactly what they purchased?

[J_Speegle]

Jeff, what are you the Dr. Phil of Shelby automobiles? I think you've driven your point home quite clearly and it seems to me that the seller/owner has put you in your place and told you that your opinion is just that, your opinion. Enough is enough - move on

Was just going to leave it as - It must have been a bad day at the virtual used car lot but

"Driven Home"?? With a single statement posted after forty four other posts. Or was it the reflective question that followed?

As for being put in my place you have to be kidding for an earlier post to have commented about my post that followed but yes an opinion just like everyone else.  Last I checked opinions, including your and mine, are welcomed here.

Sure we will all move on when we're good and ready (unless the moderator chooses differently) don't think we need your permission

Or was that just your opinion?

[whiteykr]

OK, now you got me started. I consider J. Spengle a good friend. He has helped me tremendously on my 65.If everyone was like Jeff it would be a great place. So what is with the attitude Becker? I will be happy to give you my credentials.I own 2 68 KR s since 1972 and have been into Shelby's since 1969.How long have you been into these cars? I don't remember your name 50 yrs. ago. I will be happy to tell you everything wrong with this car. I don't give opinions but facts. We can take this PM .

[shelbymann1970]

OK, now you got me started. I consider J. Spengle a good friend. He has helped me tremendously on my 65.If everyone was like Jeff it would be a great place. So what is with the attitude Becker? I will be happy to give you my credentials.I own 2 68 KR s since 1972 and have been into Shelby's since 1969.How long have you been into these cars? I don't remember your name 50 yrs. ago. I will be happy to tell you everything wrong with this car. I don't give opinions but facts. We can take this PM .

Stephen Becker has been a used Shelby(mostly) seller for as long as I can remember him. So anything negative talking about car sales could affect his business. That would be my take. Just my .02C

[shelbymann1970]

I'd say it doesn't matter to most of us like me who watch in amusement that someone with that type of disposable income isn't smart enough to do some due diligence on a car they are buying.................

The issue or problem is this can "hurt" all of us and the hobby. We all hopefully understand that the wealth are likely driving the value of most of our cars and when one or more feel that they were sold something that they were not fully aware of they aren't happy, and he/she tells a few of their friends and they tell others. Next thing you know they are buying art, sail boats or that third or fourth home.

Memories of a poor purchase (will leave it at that) can last as long or longer as memories of an enjoyable one.  Many of us can recall examples of this taking place - some of refer to those as "that guy" incidents

Yes we can't lead all the horses the horses to water nor make them drink but we also can't bring that horse back to life after they have perished from the lack of water.

If the buyer is as informed as possible personally at that point I agree - His money and choice but have not seen anything to suggest that so far. We'll see if and when they show up here

I will respectably disagree in that these are few and far between like about a decade ago a 70 Boss 302 popped at BJ for 195K and a better car the high 80s. Bob G commented that he gave his opinion the high 80s car to the buyer before the auction that that was the better car. Both orange. Boss 302 values have not been affected by that IMHO.

[shelbymann1970]

As stated above the car went for 2X retail......something is up. Plain and simple and I do not care if that hurts feelings, I would not consider any car "over restored" if it is not right in places as mentioned, yet because the paint is better than it was from the factory it is called over restored...Then my Boss is over restored also? Yet it has repro floor pan, torque boxes, rear frame rails, front frame rails, wheel houses, etc.....will bring more than it is worth? where do I go??? Let see a Boss today is lucky to retrieve 70K, where do I go for my 140K?

One reason why I like Graveyard Carz. Mark "over restores"  the cars(have you ever seen the quality of an original 60-70s Mopar? ) but he makes them as close to assy line correct. To me not being anything close to a mopar expert it appears that that marque has a LOT BETTER quality repo parts than the Ford community as most repo parts for Mustangs are junk. Been there, returned that(repo parts) bought NOS or excellent used. As has been stated this car to be over restored would mean a concours correct gold car but points taken off for better paint. This car is eye candy and probably why it broke the bank. I think too many people under estimate the power of  perfect or near perfect black paint on a car-especially a Shelby. Again, JMHO and why? Studying the market and dealing with an appraisal friend I believe when I sold my 68  I got 5-10K more for it than I would have in it's original highland green and my car wasn't even a factory black car in 2013.  Gary

[shelbydoug]

It isn't the sale that hurts ANYTHING, it's the controversy such a drastic change creates.

Immediately people suspect fraud of some type with a success like this.

It is so out of the norm, so it appears very suspicious.



The sale of one car is not going to necessarily indicate a trend in one way or the other just as a high bid of $66k on a '67 GT350 isn't showing a sudden down trend.

Will I suspect that there will be a flood of KR's going to auction with much higher reserves? Absolutely. Will they sell? That remains to be seen.


Scott. Why worry about those upset about the success of your sale? They obviously weren't your market to begin with. Who knows exactly why they are so hurt? I don't get it.

You should be sitting there with the grin of the "Cheshire Cat".


To those of you who want to mark Scott as a witch, you are all sounding like Q-Anon. A 15 year old he/she sex worker from Bangkok or is that bang your cock with a conspiracy theory on absolutely everything and then some.

I thought we all heard the story of "Chicken Little" when we were small and realize the sky wasn't falling?

To those who insist on retaining the innocence of their youths, I offer this gem of wisdom from yesteryear. Is Scott a witch? "How can you tell a witch? You throw him in the water. If he drowns he isn't a witch. If floats he's a witch. Burn the witch!"


As far as a $200,000 KR being BAD for SAAC and the hobby in general and creating a blight on us, common Pete! You sound like OTC not wanting Amazon to move to her district because it will raise the value of the housing there to the point that her people will be forced out.

Do you live in an inverse function Universe like her?


Someone is missing the point here and it ain't me.

[tesgt350]

To play Devils Advocate here, two things, The Tilt Away: Maybe the person that owned the Car did not like that Option and switched it out (it happens) OR it needed work and the Parts were too expensive so they went the cheaper route and switched it out (it happens).  Two, the Sell Price:  Pick up any Hemmings, Autotrader or Autobuy Magazine and you will usually find several Boss 302's for sale in just about every color.  It is super super rare that you will find a Black on Black KR for sell.  That is what he has been looking for, for several Years and when one finally popped up for sale, he jumped on it because you don't know how long it will be before another one comes on the Market.   

[shelbydoug]

Very well thought out and written reply ShelbyDoug.

Well I almost called SHOTGUN! But some here might have thought that was a threat?

[Scott_Ales]

I'm still here reading...

Why?  It won't be the last Shelby I bring to market nor was it the first.  Did all this type of commentary occur when I was selling them 20 years ago for 1/4 the price?  I suppose it was.  The irony is, this EXACT mentality has happened so many times in my career I can't even count them. My former or still current world record results include, Riva wood boats, BMW M6, Lamborghini Countach, Mercedes 107 body conv., Military Humvees, various pieces of construction equipment, and many more. There is always a forum complaining about the new high sales result.  And it ALWAYS comes from the entrenched old guard.  Never the new to the space or freshly minted wealth persons.  As in, slow down there young man, not so fast. Let me tell you why you shouldn't buy that car or pay that much.  Put your dreams on hold and we'll find you a better car.  Or, join us over here where we are the guardians of the value world for all things Shelby.  We're the only ones who know and will flex when we want.  What some of you fail to respect is, not everyone is drinking your "Originality is more valuable" Kool-Aid.  All you have to do is look at the Resto-Mod market to see that. 

My craft is presentation.  I've made it a point to "Present" better than most of my competitors.  I've never shied away from valuable guidance and over the last 20+ years have happily paid for it when possible.  All I have EVER tried to do is present the facts. 

Take your attitude hat off for one moment and think this through.  What has this group done to offer guidance or knowledge before going to market?  Because I tried.  Is this the best you can do?  Grind the platform, seller, presenter, buyer to a pulp then throw in suspicion in the end to cap it off? 

If you want to be the great "Protectors" you claim, create a vetting solution.  Bitching and accusing is not a solution.  Here is my challenge, tell me specifically what you want me to do when the next Shelby lands in my care.  I understand the wealth of knowledge and value you have collectively on this brand.  But poke around a bit to discover how I have accomplished some unusual results in the presentation field. 

Open your minds and look for common ground and solutions.  The alternative isn't worth my time. 

[shelbydoug]

Careful ShelbyDoug or those in power here will remove you!

Where did you see that on Facebook?

[shelbydoug]

I'm still here reading...


Open your minds and look for common ground and solutions.  The alternative isn't worth my time.

OK, but you seem to be waisting a lot of it here. Let it go. You won.

[Scott_Ales]

So that's your reply? 

You don't want to create solutions, just keep things the way they are?

If that is the consensus, I will offer it in my next presentation.

Reached out to the most knowledgeable Shelby group for guidance after my last sale but they weren't interested to assist.

By the way, I'm not trying to win. 

[Scott_Ales]

Here's another one ...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1967-shelby-gt500-6/