Vin stampings.

[shelbymann1970]

OK, I'm going to possibly open up a can of worms here. 1968 GT350. 60K miles. Known owners  all state original engine and had not been out. Car never restored but fixed and painted due to accidents. 302 auto. The Vin on the engine although hard to read in pic MATCHES the trans. block date code. assy date code heads etc all match appropriately to March 13 build. With the grime and original Shelby components on the engine(had autolite carb on AL intake) we have no reason to believe the engine isn't original. So check out the numbers stamped. Has anyone seen anything like this before? Gary

[shelbymann1970]

Also the font size is smaller than a reg vin stamp size.

[Tired Sheep]

Does the transmission have a tag?

[shelbymann1970]

Does the transmission have a tag?

automatic with the VIN stamped. Do automatics have a tag like 4 speeds? Sorry, not well versed on autos since all my cars have been 4 speeds. Gary

[CharlesTurner]

Does the transmission have a tag?

automatic with the VIN stamped. Do automatics have a tag like 4 speeds? Sorry, not well versed on autos since all my cars have been 4 speeds. Gary

Yes, usually on driver side.

What's the approximate Ford build date of the car?

[shelbymann1970]

Does the transmission have a tag?

automatic with the VIN stamped. Do automatics have a tag like 4 speeds? Sorry, not well versed on autos since all my cars have been 4 speeds. Gary

Yes, usually on driver side.

What's the approximate Ford build date of the car?

actual 3-13-68 which matches good in my opinion with the engine components. As you can see by the grime on the engine with the valve covers and intake I highly doubt this engine was ever out of the car. I have never seen a stamping like that on an engine yet and it sure isn't any variance of a VIN either. Car has the correct 68 BB/Vert frame mounts and insulators on the car also.

[CharlesTurner]

The 400 series numbers were usually reserved for Mercury cars.  The format looks the same as what we expect although not sure what plant '1' would be and why it would start with a 9 on a '68 dated block.

Would have suggested it's a replacement block, but with the trans having the same numbers, not sure what's going on there.

Check the trans tag for a date code and the rest of the engine casting dates.

[shelbymann1970]

The 400 series numbers were usually reserved for Mercury cars.  The format looks the same as what we expect although not sure what plant '1' would be and why it would start with a 9 on a '68 dated block.

Would have suggested it's a replacement block, but with the trans having the same numbers, not sure what's going on there.

Check the trans tag for a date code and the rest of the engine casting dates.

that is what we thought. No letters so not a vin. Date codes match up perfectly for the assembly date of the car. It is just weird as when you look at the engine pic it is an engine that was virgin to Feb 1968. Never rebuilt-until just recently-and it matches the trans. Not a high performance engine so pretty much impossible to even blow it up with a C4 behind it.

[shelbydoug]

 I'm thinking that the number on the block may be a rebuilders stamping.

My Ford number is 8T02J149308. The block was stamped 8T 149.

[J_Speegle]

.................. No letters so not a vin. Date codes match up perfectly for the assembly date of the car. It is just weird as when you look at the engine pic it is an engine that was virgin to Feb 1968. Never rebuilt-until just recently-and it matches the trans. Not a high performance engine so pretty much impossible to even blow it up with a C4 behind it.

What about this possibility.

When new (possibly before it being sold to the general public) car is stolen and recovered without the engine and transmission. Dealer replaces both with new parts and then sells it to the first owner. No reason to inform the buyer since everything is new and under warranty

Same thing could have taken place with the first owner. Stolen and engine and trans replaced by the insurance company with new Ford parts to insure the warranty

[shelbymann1970]

.................. No letters so not a vin. Date codes match up perfectly for the assembly date of the car. It is just weird as when you look at the engine pic it is an engine that was virgin to Feb 1968. Never rebuilt-until just recently-and it matches the trans. Not a high performance engine so pretty much impossible to even blow it up with a C4 behind it.

What about this possibility.

When new (possibly before it being sold to the general public) car is stolen and recovered without the engine and transmission. Dealer replaces both with new parts and then sells it to the first owner. No reason to inform the buyer since everything is new and under warranty

Same thing could have taken place with the first owner. Stolen and engine and trans replaced by the insurance company with new Ford parts to insure the warranty

Well the car sat on the dealer's lot for over a year. Date codes on engine all match up correctly. So the car get built at Metuchin and get shipped to Ionia. AO Smith coverts it over. Goes to the dealer and someone steals the engine and trans(who would want a 302 4V C-4?). Dealer orders a replacement. What are the odds that they would get an engine date coded weeks before the car was built at Metuchin? THe stamps appear to be done in a holding fixture as individual stamping of each numeral wouldn't be off the same on all numerals like it is on the block. Could that be an invoice number stamped somewhere for a replacement engine/trans? Shortage when the car went down the line(factory screw up?) and the car went to a holding area for those components? Since every original engine I have seen(not a whole lot) were always stamped wouldn't this combo also be stamped? Remember Feb components and Feb assy date on block. Car built 3-13-68

[shelbymann1970]

I'm thinking that the number on the block may be a rebuilders stamping.

My Ford number is 8T02J149308. The block was stamped 8T 149.

So the engine rebuilder is a Ford expert who is now around 80(he is another friend's "go to" guy for 427s and 428s). He tore the engine down. All standard and all factory components(pistons, valves etc) and he said the engine inside was well taken care of and said the engine has never been apart before he rebuilt it. So a rebuild isn't in the cards plus no history of a VIN stamped on either component. It is really just a mystery.

[shelbydoug]

Ford Certified rebuilders here did things like that all of the time. Others did too. Maybe it will show up eventually on an obsolete catalog like Sears?

I don't know at what point peoples memories become so convenient? Maybe it was after their first break up with the High School "steady" and they just wipe out all memories?

[shelbymann1970]

Ford Certified rebuilders here did things like that all of the time. Others did too. Maybe it will show up eventually on an obsolete catalog like Sears?

I don't know at what point peoples memories become so convenient? Maybe it was after their first break up with the High School "steady" and they just wipe out all memories?

To be clear when the engine was torn down months ago it was all factory components and showed no signs of a rebuild. assembled like Ford did. The guy who rebuilt it knows his Ford stuff. He is getting up there in age and when he passes on we will lose another one of those rare mechanics who know what's what with our vintage iron. No Ford Vin, again, is on the components but the weird numeral stamping that matches nothing but possibly an invoice....you see the engine. 60K miles. Do you think a 302 and auto would both be rebuilt at the same time and put back into the car to get this grime patina at 60K miles? Car has been off the road since the early 90s also. So a little over 20 years and 60K + miles. I'm sure it is a mystery that will never be solved but I thought I'd give it a chance. My opinion owning a lot of Mustangs? It is the original engine with all the date codes matching up, never rebuilt engine and the patina. What else do we see that would warrant anything else? Nothing in Ford's paperwork(so far) to note a theft or anything else. 

[shelbydoug]

Ford Certified rebuilders here did things like that all of the time. Others did too. Maybe it will show up eventually on an obsolete catalog like Sears?

I don't know at what point peoples memories become so convenient? Maybe it was after their first break up with the High School "steady" and they just wipe out all memories?

To be clear when the engine was torn down months ago it was all factory components and showed no signs of a rebuild. assembled like Ford did. The guy who rebuilt it knows his Ford stuff. He is getting up there in age and when he passes on we will lose another one of those rare mechanics who know what's what with our vintage iron. No Ford Vin, again, is on the components but the weird numeral stamping that matches nothing but possibly an invoice....you see the engine. 60K miles. Do you think a 302 and auto would both be rebuilt at the same time and put back into the car to get this grime patina at 60K miles? Car has been off the road since the early 90s also. So a little over 20 years and 60K + miles. I'm sure it is a mystery that will never be solved but I thought I'd give it a chance. My opinion owning a lot of Mustangs? It is the original engine with all the date codes matching up, never rebuilt engine and the patina. What else do we see that would warrant anything else? Nothing in Ford's paperwork(so far) to note a theft or anything else.

The odd block stamping is a sign of a rebuild. The cars only had a one year/12,000 mile warranty. It could have been replaced in 1969.