Vin stampings.

[Tired Sheep]

Well I would say if there werent any, we can surmise the sequence does not directly relate to a specific car  ( either intentionally or unintentionally)

Then we still need to examine the trans tag and see if it is consistent with a 68 Shelby.

I think without some other similar examples, you will never get past "maybe". Its not really critical on a Shelby because the non matching number cars are not sufficiently devalued

[J_Speegle]

Just an opinion, but it looks like the discussion has at least established the numbers on the block and trans are not something applied at one of the car plants in 1968 and for this car originally. Leaving us only with possibilities but no confirmation at this time and until we find another example marked in the same fashion

[CharlesTurner]

Kevin replied and noted that there were no 400x series unit numbers for '68... so I guess we can scratch that.

With them being a different size than the normal partial VIN stamps, I guess we are back to the possibility of them being a rebuilder stamp or for some other use.

Guess one question that came to mind is if the car was ever out of the USA?

[shelbymann1970]

Kevin replied and noted that there were no 400x series unit numbers for '68... so I guess we can scratch that.

With them being a different size than the normal partial VIN stamps, I guess we are back to the possibility of them being a rebuilder stamp or for some other use.

Guess one question that came to mind is if the car was ever out of the USA?

Thank you Charles for getting in touch with Kevin. No, the car has not traveled far. Sold new in Grandville Mi, then came to the east side of the state so all owners within a 200 mile radius. Here is the transmission tag pic. Not to beat a dead horse but the rebuilder-a longtime Ford expert who is around 80sh- said the engine was original and never rebuilt when he tore it apart. 60K mile car.

[Tired Sheep]

Well PEES is the correct type of trans

I think the tag also has a date code? But, I am not sure.

The components are correct, but saying they are original to the car I dont know?

I did notice some ghost stampings on that transmission too, but I cant provide an explanation

[shelbymann1970]

Well PEES is the correct type of trans

I think the tag also has a date code? But, I am not sure.

The components are correct, but saying they are original to the car I dont know?

I did notice some ghost stampings on that transmission too, but I cant provide an explanation

I see what appears to be C 11 then the bolt hides a character on the tag. Incidentally rebuilders generally do not reinstall tags after rebuilds or install their own tags and that is why with the engine and trans still sporting their original tags is interesting.  I saw what appears to be an 8 halfway over the zero and that is it. very light on an angle. the housing is virgin metal so obviously not a full stamp over a stamp with no other visible characters. I have checked out the block and trans surfaces for evidence of tampering of the surfaces and found none. Pics pretty well call that out.

[shelbymann1970]

Just an opinion, but it looks like the discussion has at least established the numbers on the block and trans are not something applied at one of the car plants in 1968 and for this car originally. Leaving us only with possibilities but no confirmation at this time and until we find another example marked in the same fashion

I know the prior owner of this car. Appears in the SWR as 1994 registering the car with SAAC. It was a dirty unrestored car with it's share of battle scars and some Mi rust when he bought it. The patina and prior owners the car had the original engine and trans. I am not sure of how many owners from new but it isn't more than 4 I think(second owner bought off of Wyoming  Mi owner and brought it to our area 130-140 miles from there to our area). I think around 65K miles when bought in 1994 and then torn apart and sat until my friend bought it. When my friend bought it the area was so grimy you could NOT see the numbers on the engine and trans so the prior owner who pulled the combo out of the car before he sent the car out for metal work never touched the engine or trans cleaning wise. When I first saw the car about a year before my friend bought it to me the engine had the patina of being the original especially the way it was dressed in Shelby trim and dirty as shown in my pic in a prior post. The seller who we knew had no reason to believe it wasn't the original engine. The prior owner owns 2 W -code 68 Cougar XR-7s and a 67 R-code Comet and knows his cars. I was hoping this post would bring some light to those numbers. If anything that looks to be a "order code" or invoice code of some sorts. We could have easily left those codes as a mystery and stamped the vin on the trans but that is not how we roll(I would NEVER restamp any engine or trans). We want to get to the bottom of this if possible. Looking at the warranty work on the car there is nothing to show anything to a replacement engine trans. Hit the dealer in May of 68.Work done at dealer on 10-31-68 with 4 miles on it. 4/14/69 car was sold new. 4/23/69 first owner warranty work for a window regulator at 417 miles. Car sat on dealer lot for over 11 months. I also think it isn't all that big of a deal on original engine trans but my friend with his stable of cars loves originality. So I told him I'd try my best to find out why this is like this and APPRECIATE all the input you guys have put it. Thanks. Gary

[shelbydoug]

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes

THE BLOCK ISN'T ORIGINAL TO THE CAR.

You seem to prefer the self flagellation method? 



There is an "acid method" that you probably should use here in this case on the block to see if there is an original stamping that was machined off?

I don't know how you do it but it has been "quoted" as used in other references in valuable theft recovery procedures.

[shelbymann1970]

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes

THE BLOCK ISN'T ORIGINAL TO THE CAR.

You seem to prefer the self flagellation method? 



There is an "acid method" that you probably should use here in this case on the block to see if there is an original stamping that was machined off?

I don't know how you do it but it has been "quoted" as used in other references in valuable theft recovery procedures.

Hmm can you prove that? That is the problem here. Acid method? HMM are you assuming someone somehow took original Ford stamped VIN numbers off of the block and trans case and somehow created a virgin surface when done 4-5 decades ago?  You don't have all the answers so the easy one  is to type in capitals it isn't original.....area machined? How many times do I have to say the engine has not been apart before? DATE CODES ALL MATCH.  Actually only 3 owners of the car. 1st one is dead. Second one pulled the dirty drive train out of it. So lets see the 50 year old first owner had the vin numbers machined off the surfaces and they would have to be in the 60s to early 70s as witness by the patina of the engine when pulled in the early 90s(was in his 70s when he sold the car). This isn't a car that has had 30 owners and had been restored 10 times. Just an anemic 302 auto Shelby that was used by the original owner from 1969 until he sold it to the second owner in 1994. Original Owner died in 1997 according to a Mi obit search using SAAC records on who the OO was.
Oh, yeah about machining. Pretty obvious that this aluminum transmission case area has never been machined so no reason for an acid test.

[shelbydoug]

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes

THE BLOCK ISN'T ORIGINAL TO THE CAR.

You seem to prefer the self flagellation method? 



There is an "acid method" that you probably should use here in this case on the block to see if there is an original stamping that was machined off?

I don't know how you do it but it has been "quoted" as used in other references in valuable theft recovery procedures.

Hmm can you prove that? That is the problem here. Acid method? HMM are you assuming someone somehow took original Ford stamped VIN numbers off of the block and trans case and somehow created a virgin surface when done 4-5 decades ago?  You don't have all the answers so the easy one  is to type in capitals it isn't original.....area machined? How many times do I have to say the engine has not been apart before? DATE CODES ALL MATCH.  Actually only 3 owners of the car. 1st one is dead. Second one pulled the dirty drive train out of it. So lets see the 50 year old first owner had the vin numbers machined off the surfaces and they would have to be in the 60s to early 70s as witness by the patina of the engine when pulled in the early 90s(was in his 70s when he sold the car). This isn't a car that has had 30 owners and had been restored 10 times. Just an anemic 302 auto Shelby that was used by the original owner from 1969 until he sold it to the second owner in 1994. Original Owner died in 1997 according to a Mi obit search using SAAC records on who the OO was.

Yes CAPS! YOU ARE STILL MISSING THE POINT.


I heard a story from my friend the Rabbi. There was this guy, some say a Jewish guy, floating in the ocean with no one around to help him. So he prayed to God for help.

Along came a whale and said, "need a ride?'. He replied, "no, God will save me".

Along came a GIANT Eagle, swooped down and said, "I can help!", the man said, "No God will save me".

Finally a helicopter came, lowered a rope ladder. He waived it off yelling, "God will save me!"


He drowned. Fortunately went to Heaven? Probably because God wanted to know why he refused his help.

In frustration he asked God, "why didn't you save me?" God replied, "I sent you a whale, an eagle and finally a helicopter? What's to do?"


My friend is a Reformed Rabbi. He wouldn't tell me what the guys name was or why he was out floating in the ocean. He didn't want me to miss the point?

[CharlesTurner]

C 11 is the date, so March 11... assume '68.  This lines up with the April castings on the block.

I'm not sure we will ever know for sure why those numbers are stamped there.  Maybe some other cars will turn up with something similar... and doesn't have to be Shelby's... Mustangs built around the time period would probably yield more samples to compare.

[shelbymann1970]

C 11 is the date, so March 11... assume '68.  This lines up with the April castings on the block.

I'm not sure we will ever know for sure why those numbers are stamped there.  Maybe some other cars will turn up with something similar... and doesn't have to be Shelby's... Mustangs built around the time period would probably yield more samples to compare.

Thanks Charles. mid to late Feb castings on the block, heads.  March 2 on the engine tag(Feb 27 assy stamp on block). Trans tag is stamped march 11 or is that March 1 and the 1 is something else after that? March 11 would be 2 days  before car was assembled in Metuchin(Marti says March 13th). Too close? Are there cast dates on Automatic trans? While some seem to think I am missing some point I wonder if there are other cars out there and others are afraid to even bring it to light thinking they might have gotten the same responses I have gotten from a few here. Gary

[CharlesTurner]

I checked some other C4 tags and that date code is 8C11, would be followed by another number, assuming a shift code.  So, yes, March 11, 1968.

If the actual build date of the car was March 13, that would be very tight.

[J_Speegle]

I checked some other C4 tags and that date code is 8C11, would be followed by another number, assuming a shift code.  So, yes, March 11, 1968.

If the actual build date of the car was March 13, that would be very tight.

+1 Given the need to assembly the transmission, load and ship , unloaded at the plant, inventoried and so on it from the transmission plate to Metuchen not sure that the date  supports any claims of being original

Wasn't the plant in the south somewhere?  Don't have that document handy at the moment

Agree a mystery (the marking of the block and trans with the number)  until we get other examples or something solid turns up

[CharlesTurner]

Wasn't the plant in the south somewhere?  Don't have that document handy at the moment

Sharonville, OH