CSX2603. What's the deal?

[BGlover67]

I was on Facebook perusing through the groups when a post came up on a group titled "Homebuilt Cars-from Scratch or Kits".  A gentleman posted about his friends Daytona:

"This is my friends cobra datona. Some say it's a kit car but it was built by John Olson the original cobra builder in the 60s. It was built with the original aluminum and an original chassis from Carroll Shelby. It is in the registry as the last Daytona built. It is exactly the same as the original prototype. I got the opportunity to restore it and this is how it looks today.. It is actually on display at the Galpin GAS In Van Nuys California. Also there is the 15th and 20th cobra ever built my friend owns them as well". Here it is no. 66

https://www.flickr.com/photos/85908626@N00/7861729166

They are claiming it's CSX2603, made sometime in the '90s with"permission from Carroll Shelby and using a left over frame from back in the day".  I know, lot's wrong with that statement.  What's odd to me is that a quick search shows another car out there, no. 4, also a Dayonta, with the same CSX VIN number CSX2603:

https://www.hillbankracing.com/Shelby-Daytona/Shelby-Daytona-Coupe-CSX-2603/?fbclid=IwAR1pRmD1YDXweurhWJBqzxKH0AsEReBja2OcQTV84jQgyKWT55mRan7FDKE

Another Facebook post says "CSX 2603 427  FE DAYTONA COUPE  , body and chassis by Lech and Karol Kowalski , build by Tom Kirkham."


Are there two cars here with the same CSX2603?  Confusing.

[Bill]

Lot's of misinformation, but still a nice build 


Bill

[Bob Gaines]

Speaking of misinformation, CS told myself ,Ed Meyer and a group of SAAC members on a SAAC arranged ocean vacation cruise back in the day a story about misinformation.  CS explained to us that he had the rights to the CSX Chassis numbers because they were never finished . When he was interviewed about the cars the reporter misunderstood the concept of rights to the numbers and took it that he had all of those chassis's built and stored someplace. He said he let the reporter run with the misinformation and never tried to correct it because it sounded better. Plus it was the reporters mistake and not his if he was ever pressed on the subject.  He laughed to himself while telling the story .

[JD]

Wasn't this car out at SAAC-32 TOOELE, UT  in 2007 ?

[shelbydoug]

That's a great Shelby story but still doesn't precisely answer the question about the serial number(s).

For instance, did CS authorize the CSX2601 use?

[BGlover67]

Folks on the Facebook group are saying this 'Olson built' Cobra is worth what one of the original Daytonas are worth, perhaps more.  I almost chocked on that one.  But seriously, how can two cars share the same Federal VIN number?  Doesn't someone in Government check stuff like this? 

[BGlover67]

Wasn't this car out at SAAC-32 TOOELE, UT  in 2007 ?

It was out in 1999 making the rounds:

https://www.cobracountry.com/la-saac-1999/

About half way down the page.

[5566]

@BGlover67

Hi Brian

Two vehicles in the U.S. are not permitted to have the same VIN.

The National Highway Traffic Administration (NHTSA) sets the parameters (since 1981) for what a VIN must consist of.  Auto manufacturers are required to "create" and affix a VIN to all vehicles sold in the U.S. in compliance with these parameters. 

In order to title and register a vehicle in a particular state you must provide a VIN. (and either a Manufacturers Statement of Origin or a title from another state where the vehicle was titled prior, depending upon vehicle manufacture year and state)  That state won't permit a vehicle to be titled/registered with the same VIN as another vehicle.  Generally, VINs (other than for new vehicles on an MSO) are checked against all states by the titling/registering state.  Prior to the establishment of national data bases, that didn't necessarily happen. 

If a vehicle isn't titled or registered for road use, there isn't really a way for anyone "in government" to check to see if it has the same VIN as another vehicle unless someone applies for title, notifies law enforcement, etc.

[Cobra Ned]

CSX 2601 and 2602 were legitimate factory-built '60s Daytona Coupes, and are listed in the Cobra Registry. Anything with a VIN higher than that, such as 2603, is a later build of questionable parentage, as there have been a number of them. Each claims to have been "authorized by..." If any are shown in a Registry, there are identified as not being original.

I would point out that Shelby American did not control the chassis numbers of the Cobras. That was done by and at AC Cars in England. The CSX translated to C-car (the third in the series behind the Ace and the Bristol); S stood for Shelby, the recipient of the vehicle; and X stood for eXport, i.e. a left hand drive car to be exported from the UK.

Shelby's belief that he controlled the VINs led to a duplication of chassis numbers by Shelby and AC both on some of the unused CSX 30xx chassis numbers as well as some of the CSX 26xx numbers assigned to later-built coupes. Not an ideal situation.

[427heaven]

Ned you have always been a voice of reason and calm, you have put a very nice way of stating some facts. On the other side of the storyline fence... is a very deep dark black hole in which a few have seen the pile of unused chassis sitting around in the elements to gather more patina. OL SHEL had a way of stepping in it, this was when things took a negative turn for our fearless leader, late 80s early 90s I believe.

[Cobra Ned]

Thanks. But I would challenge any claim that suggested there were any '60s-built unused chassis sitting around somewhere in Shelby's warehouse. Are there much more recently built chassis, ID tags, and other parts out in the sun getting "patina" ? Yes.

[427heaven]

That is what I was stating, newer frames that were purported to be vintage SPARES, left overs. Much of this was discussed in the shadowy corners with just a few. Many decades ago there was a WTH moment when it came out, now mostly quiet until something like that car shows up.

[BGlover67]

Thank you Ned, I figured it was something like that.  It's a shame it gets so murky when you start dealing with Cobras from the '80s.

[427hunter]

Didn't Shelby loose his California DMV manufacturing license over these "continuation" cars? I remember it was a big mess, they claimed that they were original frames but they turned out to be a modern reproduction out of the southern CA.

[BGlover67]

Didn't Shelby loose his California DMV manufacturing license over these "continuation" cars? I remember it was a big mess, they claimed that they were original frames but they turned out to be a modern reproduction out of the southern CA.

Did it end up in legal trouble for 'ol Shel?


https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-04-15-vw-23029-story.html