67400F7A02882 on BAT

[Survivor]

Agreed that in most cases, even if the info. on a car is forthcoming, you need to view it in person-or at the very least by proxy.  However, I am sick and god damn tired of sellers/brokers listing cars in shitty/misleading ads that provide no relevant/critical info.  And then, when questioned by a knowledgeable buyer, they act insulted or put out.  Unbelievable.  It's called due diligence-a concept derived from the old "buyer beware" adage.  Why would we criticize/blame an aggressive buyer when it's really all about a seller not doing his job from the start.
 

[shelbymann1970]

I would like you guys to think about this. 

This person obviously didn't know as much or a lot about the car, especially when compared to folks on here, I think we all agree on that.  That being obvious, why keep pounding the guy for answers that he doesn't have or won't give. 

I watched this auction and I saw legitimate, intelligent questions from you and I saw an owner that didn't know and was tired of being what he perceived as "picked on" so he got defensive. 

IMO, when you see this you have one of three options.  Stop commenting, get on a plane or hire a third party close to the car to go inspect it. If you are serious that is what you do, 2) Stop commenting, don't bid and find another car or 3) Keeping asking and picking and look like a ass. 

Bob, you stated you had a serious bidder, that being the case he needed to hire you or someone close to the car to go see it in person to answer the questions.  I understand not wanting to spend the cash but if he is serious that is what you do.  I think most of us have driven or flown crazy places to look at cars.  To keep hammering the guy and wanting answers that the guy wasn't going to provide is not productive and only looks bad on you in the end.

one poster posted  the history of BaT. do you know it? With that said many on BaT had been there since it started. It was a discussion about cars for sale.  Second if you think for any reason this guy was being badgered go look at the red on red 1970 LS6 Chevelle that was on  Bat https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-chevrolet-chevelle-ss-61/  . I follow many marques but as a long time Shelby owner I love other marques and the Shelby guys on this auction are tame from what I see on many brand X  cars out there on BaT. Like I said and continue to say is I'm tired of owners who know the "value" of their cars but don't know the important facts and that should go hand in hand. Am I wrong?  Gary

[67 GT350]

So, here is my question, if I was to sell a car I own, what if I simply do not know an answer to a question? I think my reply would be I recommend a PPI?
For example, my car is from Texas, it has been painted, I do not know what is under the paint. All I got is what the previous owner told me, and I would not dragging that person into it.

[shelbymann1970]

So, here is my question, if I was to sell a car I own, what if I simply do not know an answer to a question? I think my reply would be I recommend a PPI?
For example, my car is from Texas, it has been painted, I do not know what is under the paint. All I got is what the previous owner told me, and I would not dragging that person into it.

Come on what are you trying to say? You can say that about any car that doesn't have original paint. You can use a paint meter gauge. You can use a refrigerator magnet over known rust spots. When was the car painted? I trust cars painted many years ago as opposed to a freshly painted car for obvious reasons. The car in question was there any problem questions as pertaining to paint? I don't recall there being any. The 2 main things some wanted to know are numbers off the block. pics of the block. A pic of the VIN under the Shelby tag or the stamped number on the other apron(I think that is what Bob asked for). All met with resistance.  I am also tired of the special rivets crap as a reason not to show the vin under the tag or at least get it on file with SAAC as the VIN is out there now with thousands of Bat Watchers seeing it. The Ford VIN was out there for days and is known to all who cared to save a copy of the Marti. Be honest and answer all the question you can. I have yet to see a car go south on "whats under the paint" question. Gary

[Greg]

I would like you guys to think about this. 

This person obviously didn't know as much or a lot about the car, especially when compared to folks on here, I think we all agree on that.  That being obvious, why keep pounding the guy for answers that he doesn't have or won't give. 

I watched this auction and I saw legitimate, intelligent questions from you and I saw an owner that didn't know and was tired of being what he perceived as "picked on" so he got defensive. 

IMO, when you see this you have one of three options.  Stop commenting, get on a plane or hire a third party close to the car to go inspect it. If you are serious that is what you do, 2) Stop commenting, don't bid and find another car or 3) Keeping asking and picking and look like a ass. 

Bob, you stated you had a serious bidder, that being the case he needed to hire you or someone close to the car to go see it in person to answer the questions.  I understand not wanting to spend the cash but if he is serious that is what you do.  I think most of us have driven or flown crazy places to look at cars.  To keep hammering the guy and wanting answers that the guy wasn't going to provide is not productive and only looks bad on you in the end.

one poster posted  the history of BaT. do you know it? With that said many on BaT had been there since it started. It was a discussion about cars for sale.  Second if you think for any reason this guy was being badgered go look at the red on red 1970 LS6 Chevelle that was on  Bat https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-chevrolet-chevelle-ss-61/  . I follow many marques but as a long time Shelby owner I love other marques and the Shelby guys on this auction are tame from what I see on many brand X  cars out there on BaT. Like I said and continue to say is I'm tired of owners who know the "value" of their cars but don't know the important facts and that should go hand in hand. Am I wrong?  Gary

Gary, I understand and can appreciate where you are coming from but I learned a long time ago not everyone has the passion we, as Shelby enthusiasts have for these cars.  The same can probably be said for many other brands but I don't follow them :-). 

Even though you are tired of some owners not knowing or willing to know the in's and out of their cars it doesn't make it right to keep drilling for information that they obviously aren't willing to provide.  Let the auction run and either go see the car or let it go by. 

What I always try to remember is it is their car, they own it and can do what they want with it.  If they wanted educated about their car they would have done it long before the auction.  I'm not criticizing anyones feelings but continuing to beat a dead horse owner only looks bad on the beater and the horse gets the sympathy :-).

[67 GT350]

So are you saying we should know every nut and bolt about our cars? Impossible. A buyer, has to right to ask any questions they feel they need to ask, a seller has the option to not know an answer to a question, or be well versed about their car. Maybe they are hiding something, (get a PPI then), maybe they just do not know, (get a PPI then). There is always someone somewhere that knows more about these cars than perhaps the owner of the car. I was looking to buy a "leftover" (I prefer to call them a "leftover" over a "carryover")...one came up for sale, in this case I knew the car better than the guy selling it, history wise, when I asked a simple question to verify his honesty, he got mad and refused to answer anymore questions, was he hiding something? Or did he simply not know? He sure did get mad though. This is a case where you have to think that you are better off loosing the chance to buy it. Something better will come and it did.

Back in the 80's you bought a car fixed it, drove the hell out of it, fixed it, drove it more, did reasonable work on it, drove it more. If it needed a starter you got one and installed it, put a clutch in it, bought tires, stored it, and drove it from spring to fall! Loved it, had fun, and made fun memories. Today, if you dont know the thickness of paint, that you did not paint, your no good, if you do not know the brand of rings in the engine, your no good, if you dont know what year it was restored, your no good. Some things you just do not know.

My friend who has several Shelbys, always told me, "here is the car, you can come and look at it and judge it for yourself, I do not need to tell anyone what I got." Not one is registered with SAAC, I am starting not to wonder why.

What are your wives going to have to put up with when they have to sell your cars when you are gone? At that point, who gives a flying flip? Thanks to all who have taken the fun out of ownership, because some might not know the company that made the carpet in their car.

If some want to or have nothing better to do than know everything about their car, that's beautiful! That is not most people. Even on here. This is a "JUST SAYIN"

[shelbymann1970]

So are you saying we should know every nut and bolt about our cars? Impossible. A buyer, has to right to ask any questions they feel they need to ask, a seller has the option to not know an answer to a question, or be well versed about their car. Maybe they are hiding something, (get a PPI then), maybe they just do not know, (get a PPI then). There is always someone somewhere that knows more about these cars than perhaps the owner of the car. I was looking to buy a "leftover" (I prefer to call them a "leftover" over a "carryover")...one came up for sale, in this case I knew the car better than the guy selling it, history wise, when I asked a simple question to verify his honesty, he got mad and refused to answer anymore questions, was he hiding something? Or did he simply not know? He sure did get mad though. This is a case where you have to think that you are better off loosing the chance to buy it. Something better will come and it did.

Back in the 80's you bought a car fixed it, drove the hell out of it, fixed it, drove it more, did reasonable work on it, drove it more. If it needed a starter you got one and installed it, put a clutch in it, bought tires, stored it, and drove it from spring to fall! Loved it, had fun, and made fun memories. Today, if you dont know the thickness of paint, that you did not paint, your no good, if you do not know the brand of rings in the engine, your no good, if you dont know what year it was restored, your no good. Some things you just do not know.

My friend who has several Shelbys, always told me, "here is the car, you can come and look at it and judge it for yourself, I do not need to tell anyone what I got." Not one is registered with SAAC, I am starting not to wonder why.

What are your wives going to have to put up with when they have to sell your cars when you are gone? At that point, who gives a flying flip? Thanks to all who have taken the fun out of ownership, because some might not know the company that made the carpet in their car.

If some want to or have nothing better to do than know everything about their car, that's beautiful! That is not most people. Even on here. This is a "JUST SAYIN"

Anyone who knows me on BaT is I generally never ask questions  on cars. I will comment when BS is said. I'll commend a car that is  really solid or restored right.  I'm known for that. Asking about nuts and bolts is surely vastly different than asking if the Ford stamped VIN is on the car  or providing info on an engine that could make it a 15K engine or a 3K engine. I think those questions are pretty fair. I saw a 69 428 CJ Mach1 go for 147K on BaT. I contacted the seller PRIVATELY to ask why the floors on the car were 65-8s while the freshly blasted photos of the car-poor pics like 4 were scanned together- showed rust free floors and body shell. I got the typical "all work was done before I bought it". To be fair the seller was probably given the pics and never noticed that MAJOR discrepancy. But to me the pics of the rust free shell were NOT of the car on auction in my opinion. Did I ever bring it up during the auction? Nope. But if the seller said those were original floors I would have corrected him. My take is I'm not the BaT police. I answer questions privately from those who have gotten ahold of me. I don't call out flaws unless false statements are made. Last thing I want to do is affect an auction sale so I stay out. If numbers look good to me on the block I say so. If there is a discussion on numbers being too perfect I'll give my opinion(68 302s seem perfect, 351s and 428s hardly due to vertical stamping of the block.).  The 69 GT350 that didn't sell yesterday there were 47 things I found wrong from the pics alone(some just detailing). Did I mention any of them? None but the guys I knew bidding on the car(trouble when 2 of my friends are both bidding on a car) never worried about those things as they wanted a driver and knew most were easy inexpensive fixes other than the trans and they preferred a 4 speed so it didn't matter.