427 Lemans engine

[TA Coupe]

Great article about the 427 Lemans engine program:

https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/secrets-of-the-ford-427-le-mans-v8/

         Roy

[shelbydoug]

I love the "road load dyno". I saw that in "Pro-stock" racing where Engles thought he invented something new back in 1985.

The depth of engineering involved at Ford to me has always been impressive.

I am sure that it exists/existed elsewhere as well.

There IS another company that I have heard "rumors" about over on the other side of town called "Cheby" or something like that? I've only heard it mentioned briefly at times.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Ford's suppliers also had their engineers working overtime to get it done.

https://www.holley.com/blog/post/ford_ferrari_and_the_holley_carburetor_that_helped_make_racing_history/

BTW those guys across town tended to keep developing one thing rather than creating something completely new. Take the SBC for instance - still in production after 67 years. It was brilliant when first produced and was the first engine to make 1 horse per cubic inch.  https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/the-1957-chevrolet-fuel-injected-283-v8-gms-greatest-hit-12/  The 327 FI engine topped out at 375hp in 1965 when is became easier to just use a big block - Ever notice how much a 396 head looks like a Cleveland one? 

[shelbydoug]

Ford's suppliers also had their engineers working overtime to get it done.

https://www.holley.com/blog/post/ford_ferrari_and_the_holley_carburetor_that_helped_make_racing_history/

BTW those guys across town tended to keep developing one thing rather than creating something completely new. Take the SBC for instance - still in production after 67 years. It was brilliant when first produced and was the first engine to make 1 horse per cubic inch.  https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/the-1957-chevrolet-fuel-injected-283-v8-gms-greatest-hit-12/  The 327 FI engine topped out at 375hp in 1965 when is became easier to just use a big block - Ever notice how much a 396 head looks like a Cleveland one?

That's all quite a story in itself.

So who was "modeling who"? First it was called the Porcupine engine over at GM then did Ford "borrow" the concept or did GM just "slip it to Ford?"

[98SVT - was 06GT]

So who was "modeling who"? First it was called the Porcupine engine over at GM then did Ford "borrow" the concept or did GM just "slip it to Ford?"

It was the 1963 Mystery Motor. https://www.macsmotorcitygarage.com/inside-the-63-chevy-427-mystery-engine/

Tom McIntyre has reunited the Mickey Thompson Vette with it's Mystery Motor - a story in itself. https://www.motortrend.com/news/mickey-thompson-z06-mystery-motor-stingray/ 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-_-0MDMQUs

[shelbydoug]

That's a LONG time ago. I may remebmer Chris Aconanmaci babbling about it on ABC's "Wide World of Sports" but probably my father rushed in and turned off the TV like he was taking some kind of porn away from me? 

I remember he hated Miles because of his nose and being a Limey. He hated Shelby because of the hat and last but not least he hated Spock because he was, hum, let's be diplomatic here, he was of the Jewish persuasion.

And you thought you had problems huh?

[98SVT - was 06GT]

did Ford "borrow" the concept or did GM just "slip it to Ford?"

Detroit spying an industry of its own. My uncle was a casting engineer and ended up running Ford's Cleveland plant. He got the maximum award Ford would pay for cost saving suggestions. He said don't paint under the vinyl tops. He got the idea from visiting a friend from his student days at GM Institute and seeing cars without top paint getting vinyl tops.
They even robbed each others schools. My uncle went to GMI and ended up at Ford. My dad went to Henry Ford Trade school and ended up a tooling designer at GMs Saginaw Steering Gear.

[6R07mi]

did Ford "borrow" the concept or did GM just "slip it to Ford?"

Detroit spying an industry of its own. My uncle was a casting engineer and ended up running Ford's Cleveland plant. He got the maximum award Ford would pay for cost saving suggestions. He said don't paint under the vinyl tops. He got the idea from visiting a friend from his student days at GM Institute and seeing cars without top paint getting vinyl tops.
They even robbed each others schools. My uncle went to GMI and ended up at Ford. My dad went to Henry Ford Trade school and ended up a tooling designer at GMs Saginaw Steering Gear.

Well there's 2 big personalities that crossed-over,  Brock & Cantwell both switched from GM to SAI, all the better for the subject of our shared interests!

jim p

[6R07mi]

Ford's suppliers also had their engineers working overtime to get it done.

https://www.holley.com/blog/post/ford_ferrari_and_the_holley_carburetor_that_helped_make_racing_history/

I see the Holley page included the account & photo of the Mose Knowland French flag from Le Mans 66
I had previously read the account and thought it was a kool story and affirmation for Mose!

Mose Nowland (center) started his career at Ford in 1955, and at 86 years old, still gushes about his time on the Ford GT program.
He's flanked by modern Ford GT racing drivers Ryan Briscoe (left) and Joey Hand (right).
They're holding a French flag that Nowland "borrowed" trackside at Le Mans after Ford's win in 1966.
The Australian and American drivers took the flag along with them back to France in 2016 as a good luck charm.
It worked. The No. 68 Ford GT driven by Hand and Dirk Müller came home first in the GTLM class...beating Ferrari, again.
(Photo courtesy of Ford Motor Company/Wes Duenkel)

jim p

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Well there's 2 big personalities that crossed-over,  Brock & Cantwell both switched from GM to SAI, all the better for the subject of our shared interests!

I always found it interesting that Brock was hired to run the driving school and not for his design talents. I've thought Shelby figured he was an ace up his sleeve in case he needed it later.

Don't forget GM's legendary Zora Arkus Duntov created the Ardun cylinder head for the Ford flathead. He approached Ford for an engineering job and got turned down so he went to GM. I wonder if he had gotten the job would Thunderbird be America's premier sportscar and the Vette an on again off again bloated sedan. Would GM then have provided the motors Shelby requested for his Cobra project???

Where is an author who can handle the parallel world idea???

[KerryBWhite]

Very interesting thoughts!!