R-model rear wheel arches?

[tomhorn1913]

I read someone's internet claim the other day -

That some of the later GT350R cars DID NOT have the rear wheel wells re-radiused.  I'm no expert on anything, but I don't recall ever hearing that statement before.  Someone knowledgeable please enlighten me.

Much obliged,
Matt

[jwtdvm]

I am no expert but am surprised no one has responded. I seem to remember something about first few R models had the cut away/flared rear wheel openings but then the SCCA said that was a no go??

[mustang7red]

r models were ordered in 3 batches. for the mostpart, the first 2 batches had their rear quarter panels sectioned and radiused, the last batch did not.
    When we restored 5r002 we put the quarter panels and wheelhouses back to an original mustang configuration and we flew Jerry Schwarz (who did all of the work on all the gt350r models) in and had him do the rear quarter panels just like he did them in 1965. The process he used was not anything like what we had envisioned that would have been done. We vidotaped the entire process and his 3 hour long interview about building all the r-models.
     He told us that he originally cut 1 1/2 inches out of the rear openings to gain tire clearance because of the large amount of roll that the car had under hard cornering due to no rear sway bar.
He also stated that sometime around April of 1965 he went with the crew on a tire testing day and while he was there they determined that did not need the additional clearance on the rear quarter panels for the tires that they were running and that all they needed to do was roll the rear quarter panel lips and flare the quarter panel slightly.
    He suggested that they do that from then on and it saved a tremendous amount of time.
    When we restored 5r213 (which may have been the last car of the second batch) we determined from original pictures that the quarter panels on it had also been sectioned and radiused but on both 5r534 and 5r538 (which were in the last batch) neither of those cars quarter panels were cut, only rolled with a slight flare....john brown

[98SVT - was 06GT]

When I crewed on 001 the wheel wells seemed larger than normal rolled wheel lips but I didn't examine how they were done. Jim Marietta did the wheel wells on the production R Models. He's doing them on the OVC continuation ones today.

[honker]

Informative thread, thanks to Matt the o.p. & the info from mustang7red.

Thought I'd post this, don't know which car this is (I should), or when, if it's not at all relevant will delete.

[silverton_ford]

Informative thread, thanks to Matt the o.p. & the info from mustang7red.

Thought I'd post this, don't know which car this is (I should), or when, if it's not at all relevant will delete.

The picture is 5R002 during testing.

Thank you for the details John. 

At SAAC 47 a few of us were hanging around 5R002 and Bernie Kretzschmar was telling us some of the details of the rear wheel arches from what he remembered.  It was really cool to hear from one of the guys that worked with Jerry Schwarz.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

The picture is 5R002 during testing.

002 had those "big" wheel wells on the restored 001 they were smaller than these but bigger than the later Rs. The numbers got all mixed up when it came time to stick the VIN tags on them. The first car built was the street car so it could start it's magazine career - it ended up as 003. Job 2 was the development of the race car 002 was the test prototype and that is the number it got (you can spot 002 as it seems to have kept it's fixed side windows all season). Miles drove it at Green Valley. Job 3 was the first production "Competition" car using all the tricks developed on 002 . At the end of the season it got 001.

Some tidbits: After Miles was killed CS tapped his buddy Jerry Titus to drive the GT350. Most of his races and wins were in 001 but 002 was also entered in some races and served as a backup car.
Titus was busy in the 60s with several drives and his SCG editor duties. In 65 Titus went full time racing for CS - in 66 His GT350 drives were fewer since CS was concentrating on the Ford GTs and the GT350s were doing great in private hands but he was tapped to clinch the TransAm championship for Ford at the last race of the season. He was also driving a D Production car and won that Championship too. A 3 year championship run - 1965 - B Production 1966 - D Production 1967 - TransAm - CS canned Titus with 2 races remaining in the 68 season when he heard Titus wouldn't return in 69. Titus got a Camaro and rebodied it as a Firebird in time for the last race of the season. He set a track record and put it on the pole only to have the engine give up while leading. He and John Ward (who originally built the car) took it to the Daytona 24 hour and finished 3rd behind 2 Lola T70s.
Don't poo-poo the apparent 1966 downgrade to D Production. That was a very competitive class and Titus made an indelible mark there too. In this photo, Jerry Titus is driving the victory lap with Vasek Polak Jr. holding the checkered flag out the window. They're entering turn 7A in Riverside, CA after winning the 1966 US Road Racing Championship (USRRC) in the D Production category. This may have been the very first major championship victory for Porsche 911 worldwide.

[6R07mi]

The picture is 5R002 during testing.

Some tidbits: After Miles was killed CS tapped his buddy Jerry Titus to drive the GT350. Most of his races and wins were in 001 but 002 was also entered in some races and served as a backup car.

You may want to revise your timeline,  Miles spent most of his time following the Green Valley (FEB 65 victory in 5R002) working on the GT40 project, and that's why Carroll brought Titus in to drive the Hi Performance sponsored competition GT350 (either 5R002 or 5R001),
Ken perished in Aug 1966 a year and 1/2 later, Titus had already moved into other brands following getting beaten at Green Valley 1966.

regards,
jim p

[CharlesTurner]

Here's the order the cars were completed (assuming the records are correct):
(Note, no completion date for 5R533 and 5R539 in the SAAC registry, 5R537 used for other purposes)

The 3 batches John mentioned:
1st - Received in Venice, late Dec '64:  5R094-108
2nd - Received April 9, 1965:  5R209-213
3rd - Received May 20-23: 5R527-540


Wednesday, April 7, 1965           5R094
Monday, April 19, 1965           5R095
Tuesday, April 20, 1965           5R096 5R097
Tuesday, May 11, 1965           5R102
Tuesday, May 25, 1965           5R098 5R100
Friday, June 11,   1965           5R103 5R104
Saturday, June 12, 1965           5R101
Monday, June 21, 1965           5R099 5R105 5R106 5R210
Tuesday, September 7, 1965   5R107 5R209 5R211
Wednesday, September 29, 1965 5R108
Wednesday, November 10, 1965   5R212 5R213 5R532 5R538
Thursday, January 20, 1966   5R527
Friday, February 11, 1966           5R528 5R529
Tuesday, February 22, 1966   5R531 5R535 5R540
Wednesday, May 4, 1966           5R536
Tuesday, June 28, 1966           5R530
Thursday, July 14, 1966           5R534

Pay attention to the dates...  17 of the '65 R models weren't completed until after '66 production began, starting in Sept '65.