65 Pitman and Idler arms on Ebay.

[texas swede]

Hi again,
Went through all the old "The Marque" and "Shelby American" and the first time a repo of Quick Steering kit was mentioned was in "The Marque" from April-May 1978 by Maier Racing in California. They said they had found a company that could reproduce these kits and asked for interests to buy a kit at $69.95. That would match the D7 on the rubber seal.
Can't find my old Maier catalog though.
Texas Swede

[anghelrestorations]

Coming back to this thread for some clarity and also to add what I put together on idler arms in general.

Reading thru this thread is a bit confusing.  I assume the term everyone is using as "repo" is actually a service replacement sold thru Ford or resellers?  To me a repo is something sold by NAPA or some other parts place.  Just wanted to be clear on that point.

Im attaching photos here of Ford service pieces I have on my shelf.  These do have the D7 boots on them as noted in this thread and you see the Ford oval logo which to me is symbolic of replacement parts made in the 70s and thereafter.  I personally believe the original idler arms had a square FoMoCo logo but think its probably too hard to 100% prove or disprove that with as many known original cars we have now as references. 

I also think the original idler arms casting was very faint opposed to the service replacements that has much more crisp casting in the case of the idler arms. 

Adding some photos.

20221213_203444 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20221213_203501 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20221213_203525 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

20221213_203719 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

[anghelrestorations]

This is the write up on idler arms I put together that has a section on the Shelby idler arms as well....trying to tie it all together.

https://xnm126.a2cdn1.secureserver.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Idler-Arms.pdf

[J_Speegle]

Nice job Marcus

[texas swede]

Marcus,
In my experience, original 65 Idler Arms and Pitman Arms have FoMoCo within an oval and 66 have FoMoCo but within a rectangle instead.
The 65 types are very difficult to see but I have an extra Pitman Arm and just checked with a magnifying glass
Texas Swede

[Bob Gaines]

Marcus,
In my experience, original 65 Idler Arms and Pitman Arms have FoMoCo within an oval and 66 have FoMoCo but within a rectangle instead.
The 65 types are very difficult to see but I have an extra Pitman Arm and just checked with a magnifying glass
Texas Swede

Good eye Bo . It has been awhile since thinking about that. I had forgotten this detail until you brought it up.

[anghelrestorations]

Im just going to throw this out here to discuss....

We know that Ford changed from a square FoMoCo logo on parts and packaging some time during the late 60's...but not exactly sure when (69?).  For sure we know that if you look at a part from 1960 you expect a square logo, and if you look at a part from 1980 you see a round/oval logo.  So there was a change. 

So I am just curious on the use of a Ford oval in 1965 on original assembly line parts.  I dont see that being used on other parts or packages in that time period unless Im missing something?

[s2ms]

Coming back to this thread for some clarity and also to add what I put together on idler arms in general.

Reading thru this thread is a bit confusing. I assume the term everyone is using as "repo" is actually a service replacement sold thru Ford or resellers?  To me a repo is something sold by NAPA or some other parts place.  Just wanted to be clear on that point.

That is the fundamental question.....are the idler (or pitman) arms with an oval Ford (NOT FoMoCo) logo that is also adjacent to the XRR engineering number repops or service parts? Maybe even a combination of both where someone copied a service part and rolled the dice on including the Ford trademark? From my experience I can only say the idler arm I bought from Branda in 1995, which I still have, was considered to be a repop at that time. Not sure why I thought that, maybe something in the 1995 Branda catalog indicated that, or possibly something I read/heard like Bo mentioned in reply #30. Possibly they are all service parts and Branda was selling genuine overstock parts as Bob mentions in reply #11. One thing for sure, they are all showing up for sale as NOS parts now, some even as assemblyline parts. Here's one currently on ebay, https://www.ebay.com/itm/285066517724, out of curiosity I emailed the seller asking for any numbers on the rubber seal, it does have a D7DC-3A196-AA.

As far as the oval Ford logo being used in 1965, I have not seen that either, oval FoMoCo-Yes, oval Ford-No. From my limited observations oval FoMoCo was an earlier thing, up to ~mid 60's, square FoMoCo later, ~mid 60's to at least 1970 or so. I personally don't recall seeing an oval Ford logo on any 60's parts

[texas swede]

The email and pictures I got from Howard Pardee many years ago, showed the original Idler arm on 5S350 to be the FoMoCo
within an oval and his R-model 5R095 to be FoMoCo within a rectangle. Howard wasn't sure this arm was original or not but
maybe the R-model was finished later, or the arm had been changed during its racing history.
Texas Swede

[6R07mi]

just for consideration, D7DC-3A196-AA is a Granada part from 1977.
Granada would be the last of the Fairlane / Falcon style steering system platforms as the next generation platforms were Fox body platform rack & pinion steering.

regards

jim p

[anghelrestorations]

Some information here related to Ford using the trademark symbol on their parts.  Ford first registered the FoMoCo trademark symbol in 1948 with the US Patent and Trademark Offices.

If you look at any actual Ford drawing of a part (see below) you will see reference to a trademark and the location on the part, but the style is not specified.  So for sure there is no hard black and white cut off date when all parts Ford was using went from one style to the next.  It was a gradual transition. 

Ford had three styles they were using on parts in the 1960s:
FoMoCo in an oval
FoMoCo in a rectangle
Ford in an oval.

If you look at different parts and different years you will find a mix, but for sure Ford was headed to the Ford in an oval trademark symbol at the end of the 1960s and going in to the 1970's. 

For what we are talking about here it would not make much sense for Ford to change the tooling from 1965 to 1966 just to change the Ford trademark symbol if nothing actually changed with the part from one year to the next.  That would not make sense to change tooling just for a different trademark symbol.

For the discussion of idlers and what I put together I am going to change the wording to say original idlers for 65/66 would have either a FoMoCo or Ford trademark symbol since at this point its probably impossible to prove one way or the other...but hopefully covers it for everyone here.

2022-12-19_16-39-23 by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

 

[Bob Gaines]

Marcus ,you should probably clarify that FOMOCO in the oval was typically in cursive script where as FOMOCO in the rectangle was block letters.

[s2ms]

To summarize this discussion strictly for 65-66 GT350 idler arms, there appears to be 3 versions we are talking about:

#1 - Oval FOMOCO script logo on top of arm, XXR engineering number on bottom of arm.

#2 - Rectangle Block FOMOCO logo on top of arm, XXR engineering number on bottom of arm.

#3 - Oval FORD script logo and XRR engineering number both on bottom of arm.

IMO it is important if at all possible to identify assembly line arms from service parts. From my observations...Version #1 is an assembly line part primarily on 65 GT350 with possible overlap on early 66 GT350. Version #2 is an assembly line part primarily on 66 GT350 with possible overlap on late 65 GT350. If the consensus is version #3 is a legit Ford part, is there any evidence it is also an assembly line arm? What have others observed?

Just hoping to bring some clarity to this subject.

[anghelrestorations]

Just for a quick visual reference adding exactly what the different style logos look like here.  Although these are not on idler arms it gives an example of each.

FoMoCo logo by Marcus Anghel, on Flickr

[texas swede]

Hi Dave,
In your post under item #1 you say that the FoMoCo within an oval is on top of arm and the XRR is on bottom.
Both Idler and Pitman arms on my car have both on top.
Texas Swede