What is the origin of the “Z” stamped VIN? …. Is it Ford’s takeover?

[honker]

Rich,

I do not know if the vin plates are reproductions or not as I have no pictures.  The information is according the the latest 1967 Registry.

I have attached my updated spreadsheet.

When I click on the link in post #28, I get a screen that says "welcome to numbers" 

Mike

[Side-Oilers]

Me too. Keep clicking. It showed up then.

[greekz]

Greekz, excellent work on the spreadsheet. 

Those 14 cars, all purchased by the railroad, were probably the easiest 14 cars SAI ever sold. 

Wonder if SPRR paid full retail for them? (After all, they were damaged goods.) 

Thanks,

It would be nice to know.  I have seen only one other car from the derailment and it had front end damage from the repairs that I saw.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Wonder if SPRR paid full retail for them? (After all, they were damaged goods.)

My parents had a friend who was a Union Pacific RR cop. He said his biggest problem was employee theft. When a shipment got broken into they had to pay retail for what ever was damaged/stolen plus a fee to the shipper covering the delay of their product. He said if someone stole a bottle of shampoo they had to buy the whole pallet and eat the shipping costs then pay a % for each day the shipment was delayed while they investigated. This was in the 60s and he said it cost the RR about $1,000 for that bottle of shampoo. They had a warehouse of stuff in LA where anyone could go bid on the damaged stuff that was left.

[Richstang]

Rich,

I do not know if the vin plates are reproductions or not as I have no pictures.  The information is according the the latest 1967 Registry.

I have attached my updated spreadsheet.

Thanks for your list Greekz!
It matches exactly as I have the derailment cars noted...6 cars with a 'Z' stamp and 8 unknown.
The last (15th) car may have been completely totaled and thus not listed as a Sante Fe sold car.
You may have posted this list before as it looks familiar.

I believe you have mis-interpretted the registry footnotes.
A car is only noted as having a 'Z' stamp when it is known, maybe even confirmed!

If nothing is written about a "Z" stamp in the footnotes it is NOT known if it has the 'Z' stamp or not.

The first car on your list is #02363. Check out those footnotes!
They state the car was 'MISSING' the Shelby ID tag...not, NO 'Z' stamp.

I think the other 7 cars on you list will follow suit as unknown.
Our SRG theory still stands with Ford's complete takeover in late April / early May.

[greekz]

Rich,

I do not know if the vin plates are reproductions or not as I have no pictures.  The information is according the the latest 1967 Registry.

I have attached my updated spreadsheet.

Thanks for your list Greekz!
It matches exactly as I have the derailment cars noted...6 cars with a 'Z' stamp and 8 unknown.
The last (15th) car may have been completely totaled and thus not listed as a Sante Fe sold car.
You may have posted this list before as it looks familiar.

I believe you have mis-interpretted the registry footnotes.
A car is only noted as having a 'Z' stamp when it is known, maybe even confirmed!

If nothing is written about a "Z" stamp in the footnotes it is NOT known if it has the 'Z' stamp or not.

The first car on your list is #02363. Check out those footnotes!
They state the car was 'MISSING' the Shelby ID tag...not, NO 'Z' stamp.

I think the other 7 cars on you list will follow suit as unknown.
Our SRG theory still stands with Ford's complete takeover in late April / early May.

Rich,

I did some reading as you suggested.  After reading the entire footnote, I see the unknown and VIN tag items.  Should have read to the end.  Usually, the "Z" information is contained in the first few sentences.

My assumption was SAAC, having copies of the invoices would know if the "Z" was part of the VIN.  That got me to checking my own invoice copy and what do you know, there is no "Z" preceding the VIN.  Maybe SAI did not think the "Z" was actually part of the VIN, but as you say, a designation for accounting the cars completed after the takeover.

Even though my invoice does not have the "Z", maybe sometime during its early life the car was inspected by the California DMV and the "Z" was added to the VIN for registration purposes.  The earliest registration car I have is 1976, and the car was titled with the "Z" as part of the VIN.

Thanks again for your efforts in researching the history of these cars.

Greek

[Richstang]

Rich,

I do not know if the vin plates are reproductions or not as I have no pictures.  The information is according the the latest 1967 Registry.

I have attached my updated spreadsheet.

Thanks for your list Greekz!
It matches exactly as I have the derailment cars noted...6 cars with a 'Z' stamp and 8 unknown.
The last (15th) car may have been completely totaled and thus not listed as a Sante Fe sold car.
You may have posted this list before as it looks familiar.

I believe you have mis-interpretted the registry footnotes.
A car is only noted as having a 'Z' stamp when it is known, maybe even confirmed!

If nothing is written about a "Z" stamp in the footnotes it is NOT known if it has the 'Z' stamp or not.

The first car on your list is #02363. Check out those footnotes!
They state the car was 'MISSING' the Shelby ID tag...not, NO 'Z' stamp.

I think the other 7 cars on you list will follow suit as unknown.
Our SRG theory still stands with Ford's complete takeover in late April / early May.

Rich,

I did some reading as you suggested.  After reading the entire footnote, I see the unknown and VIN tag items.  Should have read to the end.  Usually, the "Z" information is contained in the first few sentences.

My assumption was SAAC, having copies of the invoices would know if the "Z" was part of the VIN.  That got me to checking my own invoice copy and what do you know, there is no "Z" preceding the VIN.  Maybe SAI did not think the "Z" was actually part of the VIN, but as you say, a designation for accounting the cars completed after the takeover.

Even though my invoice does not have the "Z", maybe sometime during its early life the car was inspected by the California DMV and the "Z" was added to the VIN for registration purposes.  The earliest registration car I have is 1976, and the car was titled with the "Z" as part of the VIN.

Thanks again for your efforts in researching the history of these cars.

Greek

Hi Greekz.

I don't believe any SAI douments had the Z stamp noted on them. If they did the registrar would have included that in the footnotes.
Since we believe the state DMVs all run independantly and individually depending on the person who inputs that info...
A car may or may not have the 'Z' noted as part of the VIN...technically it is not part of the VIN, just stamped in front of it.

Thanks for bringing this up. It was worth looking into as a possibilty.

Rich

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Since we believe the state DMVs all run independantly and individually depending on the person who inputs that info...
A car may or may not have the 'Z' noted as part of the VIN...

When new the DMV put in what was on the MSO the dealer gave them. Over the years the Z may have been added to some when having them inspected for re-registration or transfer thinking the omission was an error. I had to have the title corrected on an original Mini Cooper S. Utah DMV had listed the VIN on the title with the number 5 instead of the correct S. The CA inspector drug out his magnifying glass and said yep that's an S.

[shelbymann1970]

Since we believe the state DMVs all run independantly and individually depending on the person who inputs that info...
A car may or may not have the 'Z' noted as part of the VIN...

When new the DMV put in what was on the MSO the dealer gave them. Over the years the Z may have been added to some when having them inspected for re-registration or transfer thinking the omission was an error. I had to have the title corrected on an original Mini Cooper S. Utah DMV had listed the VIN on the title with the number 5 instead of the correct S. The CA inspector drug out his magnifying glass and said yep that's an S.

your story reminds me of KK2039 69 B9 I owned. Prior owner had to get a title for it as his was stolen so he had police come out. with a dirty inside windshield they mistook the "Q" (9F02Q198868) for a 0 so when I bought the car it had the "0" instead of the Q. My car was one of the ones they didn't change the dash tag or stamp the Z over the Q on 69 B9s. I was able with my Eminger invoices and Ford manuals to get my DMV without the car present to change the 0 to a Z and do it for free(I claimed their error). Original KK Door sticker and door tag confirmed as well as the "obvious" a "Z" B9. Well today the car sports a Z dash tag. It appears someone made up a fake Vin tag for the car. I hope they saved the original Q vin tag but doubt it. I thought it was a cool part of it's history(first Eminger report shows Q going to KK then the second a Z going to the Ford dealership). I still have the original paperwork showing our DMV changing the title from an 0 to a Z.