Z VIN prefix

[prototypefan]

I'm not aware of the Z VIN prefix being on any paperwork for the 67's.

Do any of the states require the Z prefix on title documents?

[greekz]

The Z is not on my invoice, but it is part of the VIN on the earliest California registration I have from 1976.  I can only speculate when it was added as part if the VIN.  Perhaps being one of the derailment cars, the car was inspected at the salvage yard and the Z was added to the paperwork at that time.  But, that is just a guess.

[Bob Gaines]

I'm not aware of the Z VIN prefix being on any paperwork for the 67's.

Do any of the states require the Z prefix on title documents?

I have not heard of any requirements by states for the Z . Of course there will always be that one .

[Richstang]

Greek, I'm surprised you think the "Z' stamp on the VIN plate has anything to do with the train derailment.
Back in 2018, I mentioned while collecting VIN plate photos, I noticed they stated adding "Z" stampe on 4/27/67.

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=2339.msg20003#msg20003

Back then, we were not sure of the meaning and there were a few ideas floarting around.
Our current theory (SRG) follows along that date, as we have reviewed many more cars VIN plates.
In just about every case all the cars have the Z stamping.
Any exception were likely missed, just like the door tags that were not removed on a few cars.
We think this was the start of the Ford takeover and a method of noting which cars were now on Ford's accounting.
Many other details suggest this to be true, such as invoices sent to Ford by SAI to capture as many $$$ as possbile before that time.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Anyone with a 67 should be in the Google group - https://groups.google.com/g/shelbyresearch

The Z was not part of the VIN but an accounting method to keep track of cars built after the Ford take over of SA. Warranty claims on cars with a Z went to Ford and those without were charged against SA.

That is the current consenses - I wonder if anyone has come across any MSO (Mfg Statement of Origin) for the 67s and if any listed as Ford rather than SA as the manufacturer. The originals get surrendered to DMV when the car is first registered but sometimes you see copies listed in paperwork of auction cars.

[Richstang]

Anyone with a 67 should be in the Google group - https://groups.google.com/g/shelbyresearch

The Z was not part of the VIN but an accounting method to keep track of cars built after the Ford take over of SA. Warranty claims on cars with a Z went to Ford and those without were charged against SA.

That is the current consenses - I wonder if anyone has come across any MSO (Mfg Statement of Origin) for the 67s and if any listed as Ford rather than SA as the manufacturer. The originals get surrendered to DMV when the car is first registered but sometimes you see copies listed in paperwork of auction cars.

It's just our THEORY at this time. We are still and need to collect more data on this and other subjects.
There are other theories that need to be considered until hard evidence is found.

[greekz]

Greek, I'm surprised you think the "Z' stamp on the VIN plate has anything to do with the train derailment.
Back in 2018, I mentioned while collecting VIN plate photos, I noticed they stated adding "Z" stampe on 4/27/67.

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=2339.msg20003#msg20003

Back then, we were not sure of the meaning and there were a few ideas floarting around.
Our current theory (SRG) follows along that date, as we have reviewed many more cars VIN plates.
In just about every case all the cars have the Z stamping.
Any exception were likely missed, just like the door tags that were not removed on a few cars.
We think this was the start of the Ford takeover and a method of noting which cars were now on Ford's accounting.
Many other details suggest this to be true, such as invoices sent to Ford by SAI to capture as many $$$ as possbile before that time.

Richstang,

Not thinking that at all.  Merely suggesting that the car might have been inspected by someone at the California DMV.  That inspector may have noticed the Z on the VIN plate and made it part of the VIN for registration purposes even though it is not designated on the factory invoice.  The California DMV has always marched to a beat of a different drum when it comes to car registrations.  The rules even vary between DMV agents.  One never knows what the California DMV might do on any given day.

[Richstang]

Greek, I'm surprised you think the "Z' stamp on the VIN plate has anything to do with the train derailment.
Back in 2018, I mentioned while collecting VIN plate photos, I noticed they stated adding "Z" stampe on 4/27/67.

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=2339.msg20003#msg20003

Back then, we were not sure of the meaning and there were a few ideas floarting around.
Our current theory (SRG) follows along that date, as we have reviewed many more cars VIN plates.
In just about every case all the cars have the Z stamping.
Any exception were likely missed, just like the door tags that were not removed on a few cars.
We think this was the start of the Ford takeover and a method of noting which cars were now on Ford's accounting.
Many other details suggest this to be true, such as invoices sent to Ford by SAI to capture as many $$$ as possbile before that time.

Richstang,

Not thinking that at all.  Merely suggesting that the car might have been inspected by someone at the California DMV.  That inspector may have noticed the Z on the VIN plate and made it part of the VIN for registration purposes even though it is not designated on the factory invoice.  The California DMV has always marched to a beat of a different drum when it comes to car registrations.  The rules even vary between DMV agents.  One never knows what the California DMV might do on any given day.

Hi greekz,
Sorry I missunderstood your reply. Thanks for the clarification reply. (I did notice your comments in the linked in post.
Your reply sounds all to familiar with unwrittten rules, designated by location.
We are trying to look at any unregestered cars from California (nearly impossible to find) for how they were initially documented.

(The derailment cars likely all had a Z stamp with the completion dates in May)

[greekz]

Greek, I'm surprised you think the "Z' stamp on the VIN plate has anything to do with the train derailment.
Back in 2018, I mentioned while collecting VIN plate photos, I noticed they stated adding "Z" stampe on 4/27/67.

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=2339.msg20003#msg20003

Back then, we were not sure of the meaning and there were a few ideas floarting around.
Our current theory (SRG) follows along that date, as we have reviewed many more cars VIN plates.
In just about every case all the cars have the Z stamping.
Any exception were likely missed, just like the door tags that were not removed on a few cars.
We think this was the start of the Ford takeover and a method of noting which cars were now on Ford's accounting.
Many other details suggest this to be true, such as invoices sent to Ford by SAI to capture as many $$$ as possbile before that time.

Richstang,

Not thinking that at all.  Merely suggesting that the car might have been inspected by someone at the California DMV.  That inspector may have noticed the Z on the VIN plate and made it part of the VIN for registration purposes even though it is not designated on the factory invoice.  The California DMV has always marched to a beat of a different drum when it comes to car registrations.  The rules even vary between DMV agents.  One never knows what the California DMV might do on any given day.

Hi greekz,
Sorry I missunderstood your reply. Thanks for the clarification reply. (I did notice your comments in the linked in post.
Your reply sounds all to familiar with unwrittten rules, designated by location.
We are trying to look at any unregestered cars from California (nearly impossible to find) for how they were initially documented.

(The derailment cars likely all had a Z stamp with the completion dates in May)

No problem, I should have been more clear in my first post.

I always keep an eye out for '67's, but unfortunately, I mostly see '65's and '66's.

[oldcanuck]

Rich,

So the Z prefix was an inventory marking during, or after, or both...... the SAI to FoMoCo transition ? 

Thanks in advance,

Bob

[Richstang]

Rich,

So the Z prefix was an inventory marking during, or after, or both...... the SAI to FoMoCo transition ? 

Thanks in advance,

Bob

So far, we have not found any conclusive answer to the purpose of the Z VIN. We need to continue to gather documentation (such as the Shelby Production Orders and other papers to analyze. There are many theories that are out there. Some are very interesting and timely, such as the cars being compliant for all 50 states, with the mid-May added outboard grille lights.

Back in July of 2018, I suggested 4/27 ('67) was the date I observed, after analyzing hundreds of photos of the VIN plates
   (An exceptions was found where a completed car was already at a Ford inventory lot before it shipped to the selling deaelr) .
Brian Styles noted some of the other theories in his post on our SRG Google Group. His post was from May 2018. https://groups.google.com/g/shelbyresearch/c/vvHdD9CG4d0/m/2KBfIpeUAgAJ
  Clearly the Z stamp was being looked at again, to try and find an answer.

Our current theory is the Z stamps were added when the Ford takeover started and continued for the remainder of production at LAX, not before. I imagine the writing was on the wall and SAI knew it was coming. The bleeding had to be stopped and Ford decided it was time to step in completely at or very near that time. Again this is just our current theory. We continue to gather any available documents and photos to review, to get a better understanding.