question on 67 shelby gt 500 blocks &

[Harris Speedster]

I maybe get the search engine to find me a post about 40% of the time.
A old buddy called and said an old yard was being cleaned out, and there is a stach of blocks in a building
My question;
Is a C6ME block with an A scratch on the back of block usable or correct for a 67 500?
crazy, but there is no dash letter ?
A 289 std block, date code 5-L-19 was another
He is going to get me a list of all the blocks.
Also having me get starter and alternator numbers >> he said there must be at least 50 of them from prior to 1970

Thanks
John

[shelbydoug]

The "A" scratch block with an appropriate casting date is the one that is most common for a '67 GT500.

There has been some reporting that the very last '67 '500s built in July by Ford have shown C scratches but remember, the casting date is very significant there as well. It has to make sense to the cars build date.

The casting date should have a date two to three weeks before the Ford assembly date. The very early GT500's could be a greater variation.



Also, for an unknown reason, no '67 GT500 428 blocks have chassis numbers stamped into them. So really, there is no way to know if the block is original to that particular car except for the scratch mark and the casting dates.

C6ME-A blocks with no scratch marks are 390 blocks.

The ironic thing is that you can in fact have the original block to the car but you can't prove it other then it is date appropriate. The assembly dates hand stamped into the "horns" of the block can help as well if you can figure them out.



The "C" scratch can be for a CJ but there is no specific block for a CJ. You need to look at the build sheet to see if the engine was built as a CJ but it is highly unlikely that a CJ would have been built with a blank (390) or an A scratch block. You should expect a C scratch for that application.

Ford used 390 blocks with 428 cranks in the Mercury division and called them 406's.

So the scratch mark and an appropriate casting date are the critical factors.



As with all FE blocks, they evolve into better solutions. All of the A scratch blocks appropriate for a '67 GT500 that I have seen, are cast between November 1-66 and June 31-67 and have the reinforced webbing.

The A scratches can go back to the '65 Ford model year which by casting dates would be inappropriate for a '67 GT 500, not to mention a '68.

I do not know if those early blocks have the reinforcements cast in?

I can't speak for the 390 blocks but the casting date is the significant documentation for the updates as well.



The service 427 blocks with the D2 part numbers and the stripes on the sides were the ones being used in NASCAR racing and they have different cylinder castings that are almost square to reinforce the bores from cracking under race conditions.

Those are literally the best of the 427's but historically are "incorrect" for any of the vintage racers.

The 427 service blocks are generally cast with the stripes on the sides. They are side oilers but are drilled for hydraulic lifters. If you race those you need to block the hydraulic lifter galleries with Allen set screws. Solid lifters don't need the extra oiling and the entire point of the side oiler was to correct oiling issues under race conditions of pumping too much oil upstairs and not enough to the main bearings.


Hopes this helps?

[TA Coupe]

Great tutorial Doug!

      Roy

[shelbydoug]

Great tutorial Doug!

      Roy

TY for the compliment. I hope it helps anyone looking for a block.

[propayne]

If I'm not mistaken Mercury had a 410

- Phillip

[pbf777]

If I'm not mistaken Mercury had a 410

     Yes, 4.050" bore with the 3.98" stroke crankshaft; basically a 390 block with a 428 crank.  Ford's F.E. mix-and-match program at work!   

     But, these blocks were somewhat unique in that they often will exhibit on the passenger side, mid-way down, just below the cylinder head deck, cast in two lines, the casting numbers of "C4AE-6015-A", in a box out-line, and will also have the extra skirt reinforcement rib and even the cross-bolt main bosses, but not with the cross-bolt main caps.                                                                                                                        

     Scott.

[shelbydoug]

If I'm not mistaken Mercury had a 410

     Yes, 4.050" bore with the 3.98" stroke crankshaft; basically a 390 block with a 428 crank.  Ford's F.E. mix-and-match program at work!   

     But, these blocks were somewhat unique in that they often will exhibit on the passenger side, mid-way down, just below the cylinder head deck, cast in two lines, the casting numbers of "C4AE-6015-A", in a box out-line, and will also have the extra skirt reinforcement rib and even the cross-bolt main bosses, but not with the cross-bolt main caps.                                                                                                                        

     Scott.

I only had one of them. Paid $50 for it. It was my first FE. I just wanted it for the crank. Heads were really good for boat anchors.

A long time ago. A 410? OK. I haven't thought about it in a long time.

I think it had the early 2 bolt engine mount bosses? 352 type.

I don't remember the model year. Might have been a '62 or '63?

I was building a 427 stroker

[Krelboyne]

The FE 410 was offered by Mercury 1966-67. I believe that the letter code in the VIN was "M".

[shelbydoug]

The FE 410 was offered by Mercury 1966-67. I believe that the letter code in the VIN was "M".

Here's a read on the subject.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_S-55

Interesting in that the article calls the engine both a 406 and a 410 starting in '62.

I don't remember a 427 S55 version as described but my thought is that might have been Ford dangling the term as it has seemingly always throughout the '60s. Go to order one and find it unavailable.

I think I remember '65 T-bird's theoretically available with 427's also but can't remember ever seeing one?


I should point out that "pre-production publicity" for the '68 GT500 indicated a 427 would be available as well. That never happened but the "W" code '68 Cougars did.


In any case it is only an interesting sidebar that doesn't relate to any GT500 applications. If the 406/410 block had it's own casting ID, which I don't doubt, it just adds to the Ford FE block casting confusion of having 352 designated in one spot, 66-427 in another, and so on and so on. 

[Harris Speedster]

Doug,
I would hope that the administrators see the wisdom of hard facts in Doug's posts here.
Beings that FE is a BIG DEALwith AC Cobra, GT 500's, and many more makes of Ford which members here own;
Please set Doug's post aside and give it an easy searchable topic name.
Something that people can easily search and find.

427-428 and all FE engines from 1958-1972 ?
Everything about FE engines ?
Just a thought from the peanut gallery.
As close, thank you Doug for sharing your hours of research and knowledge, I believe most herein, truly appreciate it !
Respectfully submitted,
The old John from Utah.

[shelbydoug]

The search feature here, AS ON MANY SITES, doesn't work well.

LONG AGO, some loved the idea of this site being somewhat of an encyclopedia. SOME still have not given up hope, but sadly most have.


I don't usually pick on the Administration. I am reminded of the time that I was part of that even though with just a specialty.

I found that many thought that I was grossly overpaid but the irony was that I did it for free.


Thanks for the compliment John. I hope it helps someone, somewhere, sometime?

Maybe just bookmark it? To me it seems a little sophomoric.


You mentioned '58 FE's. Those were 352's. The 390 isn't introduced until '61.
Incidentally, FE is an abbreviation for Ford-Edsel. 

[TA Coupe]

FE also stands for Foundry and Engineering. The 406/410 thing probably happened when they stopped using a pencil to do calculations and started using calculators 🙃

       Roy

[Harris Speedster]

Doug,
You are most welcome.
I do not see it as picking a fight with administrators, but I do understand, and appreciate your thought.
I also understand that compiling the info on FE within the site might take a bit, but isn't that what its all about?
Being FE engines are so important to the FORD brand, and so many keep the FE alive, just thought it might be a good thing ?
Just the peanut gallery speaking out.
Saac is a great site that I am proud to be a part of, but as with anything, if not for the members, what would SAAC be ?
With Respect,
John