65-66 Kelsey Hayes wheels “for Shelby GT350” on BAT

[OldFordGuy]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/kelsey-hayes-3/

I have questions.

[Bob Gaines]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/kelsey-hayes-3/

I have questions.

FYI those are 15 wheels. They are not to be confused with the typical 66 GT350 14" painted wheels. 

[bluemax]

These are very interesting.

I understand the need to replace the "hoop" on the Cragars during restoration as they need to be rechromed, but why would one replace on a steel wheel?

I would think, that unless terribly rusted, that you would simply clean up (media blast, chemical, etc.) and repaint.

Am I missing something here?

Curious as to what these "restored" wheels will bring.

[Coralsnake]

On BaT ...my pal says $20,000 

[CharlesTurner]

These are very interesting.

I understand the need to replace the "hoop" on the Cragars during restoration as they need to be rechromed, but why would one replace on a steel wheel?

I would think, that unless terribly rusted, that you would simply clean up (media blast, chemical, etc.) and repaint.

Am I missing something here?

Curious as to what these "restored" wheels will bring.

My initial thoughts also.  I've only run across a couple wheels that were so rusty/pitted that they couldn't be used... as in actual rust holes through the outer rim and huge craters in the surface.

[Shelby_r_b]

My understanding regarding the removal of the "hoops" for both original Cragars and Steel Wheels:

In order to restore the wheels (and to ensure that they are DOT certified post restoration), the hoop has to be removed and replaced with a DOT hoop.  Craig will not restore a wheel (Cragar or otherwise) without removing and replacing the hoops with DOTs.  Not my area of expertise, but I definitely understand. 

Others have "restored" wheels without removing the original hoops, but those people (from my understanding) are no longer in business, and the wheels didn't turn out too well.  Bob and Craig commented recently on a set of "restored" original Cragars that sold on BaT with concerns.

As far as pitting / rust:  if the hoops were unsalvageable, so would the center.

Again, Craig would be the best person to answer these questions...just my 2 cents from having Craig restore numerous wheels for me.

[George Schalk]

I would consider the K-H HiPo wheels being offered in the BaT auction to be a RE-CREATION or replica of the original K-H 15"x6" HiPo steel wheel. 

My guess is they were re-rimmed only because they were originally manufactured by K-H as an early 15x5 HiPo wheel or most likely they were a set of narrow width run of the mill K-H produced generic HiPo style wheels, no sign of a "FoMoCo" stamp on the center hub only the "K-H" stamp. 

With the DOT 6" rim and no "FoMoCo" stamp, I would consider these wheels to be no different than a reproduction wheel, but if you want the steel wheel look and don't have any,  these would be the next best thing to originals.

Certainly not worth anywhere near $20k

[Shelby_r_b]

I would consider the K-H HiPo wheels being offered in the BaT auction to be a RE-CREATION or replica of the original K-H 15"x6" HiPo steel wheel. 

My guess is they were re-rimmed only because they were originally manufactured by K-H as an early 15x5 HiPo wheel or most likely they were a set of narrow width run of the mill K-H produced generic HiPo style wheels, no sign of a "FoMoCo" stamp on the center hub only the "K-H" stamp. 

With the DOT 6" rim and no "FoMoCo" stamp, I would consider these wheels to be no different than a reproduction wheel, but if you want the steel wheel look and don't have any,  these would be the next best thing to originals.

Certainly not worth anywhere near $20k

Hi George,

I normally wouldn't comment on an item for sale unless I know that something is incorrect.  These wheels are mine and I'm the one who listed them, and I can attest to them.

It was an option for HiPos (according to lore) to have 15" wheels.  However, no one (that I'm aware of) has a window sticker that shows a non-Shelby HiPo with a 15" wheel as an option.

As outlined in my response on BaT, Craig removed the original "hoops" to ensure that the wheels meet DOT standards.  Also, as mentioned in my listing, the FoMoCo is present but not visible due to paint, but it's there.

Some non-Shelby wheels have similar centers, but most do not have the "K-H" visible.  Those have (at times) been used to create wheels that look appropriate and will still pass judging in all but original / unrestored classes.

In the end, 15"x6" wheels are supremely hard to find.  The new owner will be ready to show / go!

Thanks,
Ruben

[George Schalk]

Hi Ruben,

If you can attest to the authenticity of the K-H HiPo steel wheels in your BaT auction, that's great, but in my opinion, you dramatically reduced the value of the steel wheels by having new DOT 6" rims installed.  There had to be a way to save the original wheels as a whole instead of re-rimming them.

I understand having an original 65 Cragar or 67 MagStar or 69-70 Shelby wheel re-rimmed due to pitting and/or loss of chrome, but it is not common to re-rim a steel wheel, like the K-H HiPo wheels and especially a RARE set of 15x6 steelies, unless they were all damaged beyond repair or heavily rusted with holes. 

I've had wheels restored/re-rimmed with modern DOT rims and i am not a fan of them due to the fact that the originality factor is now lost.  I am sure your rims will bring decent money for what you have made of them, but I still doubt they started life as a genuine K-H FoMoCo 15"x6" HiPo wheel.  The only way I would reconsider my opinion is if I saw pictures of the wheels before they were restored.

Good Luck with your auction.     

Regards,
George Schalk

[Shelby_r_b]

George,

I don't know what axe you have to grind, as I've never met nor interacted with you.  Although, looking at your past posts, I'm not surprised.

What's really surprising is your attack on my integrity.  And I believe you misunderstood me.  If you sought to understand versus attack, we might be getting somewhere.

After re-reading your comments, it seems you assumed that the wheels started out (prior to restoration) as 15x6.  That is not correct - I have not stated this at all.  The auction is for a set of 15x6 Shelby Steel Wheels.  These wheels ARE real and started out as 15x5.5".  15x6" are extremely hard to find - ask me how I know.  And, again, Craig replaced the hoops.  I'm sure he would save the hoops on a 6" wheel but ask him how many he's seen.  I'm thinking he knows more than you.

So, to confirm (again):  yes - they are 15x6" wheels.  No, they did not start out as 15x6" wheels.  Are they original Shelby wheels?  Absolutely.

I won't get into a back and forth with you over a public forum.  You've shown your true colors, and I'll leave it at that - nothing else will be said by me; although, I'm sure you'll get the last word (and I'm guessing it won't be an apology for misunderstanding and attacking my character).

Side note:  this is the reason I don't frequent or post on the SAAC Forum like I (and others) used to do.  This community should be about building up the hobby / knowledge - not hiding behind a computer to take uneducated cheap shots.

Best,
Ruben

[6s1802]

Gonna be big buckos kids

[George Schalk]

Ruben,
For the record I did not start out by attacking you nor do I have an axe to grind.  I am sorry you feel that way.  But at this point, the gloves are off!!

There are questions about the wheels and why they were re-rimmed, but not once did you mention the reason, in your BaT auction or on this form until I made a comment giving my theory on why I thought they were re-rimmed.  Your most recent comment back to me is when you first openly admitted the wheels were made to look like 15x6 HiPo wheels.  Not once did you state that these wheels started out as a 15x5.5 wheel.  If you did mention it, please show me if I overlooked it.  It seems you are starting to back peddle at this point.  I never "assumed" the wheels started out as 15x6, but I believe you were trying to mislead us on this form and in your auction.  You stated, "These wheels are mine and I'm the one who listed them, and I can attest to them."  after being questioned.  Maybe you misunderstood everyone's questions and responses about the wheels.

And going back to previous posts, if someone comes after me and starts an attack, you better believe I will fire back. 

Thank you for finally answering the question, "So, to confirm (again):  yes - they are 15x6" wheels.  No, they did not start out as 15x6" wheels.  Are they original Shelby wheels?  Absolutely." 

If you are hoping someone is going to drop $20k on a set of re-created 1965 Shelby wheels, be honest and don't try to skirt around the facts. 

And as for the last word, you are correct, I will have the last word when someone comes after me.  As for your integrity, that's all on you dude!! 
 

[Shelby_r_b]

OK, I take it back. I will make one more comment, George.

You're hilarious!!! 🤣🤣🤣 How can I or others take your comments seriously?!?!

I wish other got as wound up as you. This world would be a much more interesting place.

Regards,
Ruben

[George Schalk]

OK, I take it back. I will make one more comment, George.

You're hilarious!!! 🤣🤣🤣 How can I or others take your comments seriously?!?!

I wish other got as wound up as you. This world would be a much more interesting place.

Regards,
Ruben

I'm not wound up, I'm just glad to see you finally admitted, on this forum and in your auction, what the wheels really are and how you re-created them.  That's all anyone wanted to know.  I guess my hilarious comments finally got you to speak the truth about the wheels. 

Let's hope this is my last word!!

[Shelby_r_b]

That's makes two of us. 🤣