65-66 Kelsey Hayes wheels “for Shelby GT350” on BAT

[Karguy]

Here are some pictures of original rim profile, as well as Kelsey Hayes factory stamp, and correct rivets. The first picture is of the wheels listed on BAT. I believe the wheels on Bat are re-created wheels, using new barrels and spiders off narrower KH wheel. Perhaps a better description would be 66 Shelby re-creation Wheels. They do look great, and would be perfect for someone who doesn't need the wheels on their car to be exact or original.

[Shelby_r_b]

Here are some pictures of original rim profile, as well as Kelsey Hayes factory stamp, and correct rivets. The first picture is of the wheels listed on BAT. I believe the wheels on Bat are re-created wheels, using new barrels and spiders off narrower KH wheel. Perhaps a better description would be 66 Shelby re-creation Wheels. They do look great, and would be perfect for someone who doesn't need the wheels on their car to be exact or original.

Thanks for posting these pictures!

As I mentioned on BaT, not all wheels were riveted.  And, in order to be DOT certified, they cannot be re-riveted; which is why Craig welds them.

Regardless, I appreciate the input!

[Shelby_r_b]

Ah! Now I see what you're what you're taking about Karguy, regarding the barrels (I'm assuming you're talking about the "hoops" or "rims").

Yes, the hoops were replaced (as mentioned in the auction). There is a difference between the original hoops and the ones Craig puts on. I believe he uses the same hoops for the Cragars and steel wheels.

Here are pictures of the difference I think you're illustrating (these pictures are from Cragars - original versus restored).

Thanks!

[JD]

"Safety Bead" rims, later version to inhibit un-seating tire bead under in-use side-loading

[98SVT - was 06GT]

In order to restore the wheels (and to ensure that they are DOT certified post restoration), the hoop has to be removed and replaced with a DOT hoop.  Craig will not restore a wheel (Cragar or otherwise) without removing and replacing the hoops with DOTs.  Not my area of expertise, but I definitely understand.

I'd like to see the LAW that says you can not use a 1965 process to repair/restore a 1965 part and that it can't retain its original certification. OR that a wheel restoration requires the use of a current type rim design. To make a new wheel yes to repair no. If you can get the hoops cut off without damage and have them replated there is no law I know of that says you can't weld it back on - or re-rivet if that is how it was originally.
It's easy to sell the ".gov requires it". But it's also easier to get and stock current production hoops than remove old ones and send them to the plater then wait for their return. It's also cheaper to use a current off the shelf item than having custom 1965 spec ones rolled. Finally it's easier/cheaper to weld those new rims rather than having the equipment to put the rivets in.
Bottom line - Since I see antique wood and steel spoke wheels being repaired with new rims and spokes I'll wager the liability attorneys, not the law, drives the use of current DOT rims only policy.

[TLea]

The giveaway on original rims vs later rims (barrel) is the distinct taper on the inner part as well as the safety bead. I've seen people fill the bead so you can't discern once tire is mounted but the taper is still the giveaway. For the record all 15x6 Shelby wheels I've seen are riveted and the 15x5.5 are welded. They can be made exact but it requires finding correct pieces and a lot of work. I needed 15 for 3 cars I was doing, 10 15x6 and 5 15x5.5.
I found the 5 5.5 and 7 of the 6's. I had to make 3 6's and believe me I would have rather paid 4-5k a wheel

[Bob Gaines]

Ruben your arrows are off in regards to the safety bead.. The safety bead is the raised area best seen in the profile picture of your wheel in reply #15 on the outer portion of the rim to help keep the bead of the tire seated. The corresponding depression can be seen on the inside of the rim once the tire is installed. Your wheels would get a pass in DIV II or MCA trailered just like any other modern Crager wheel that Craig sells or restores given current standards IMO. They would not pass in DIV I or Thoroughbred because of the safety bead which is one of the first things that are checked for on a otherwise correct looking wheel.

[Karguy]

After a friendly back and forth this morning with Ruben, I resigned myself to let it go and forget the whole wheel thing. All day I've been wondering why I still have heartburn over the topic of these wheels and Rubens ad, but I finally figured it out. As many of the SAAC members have I have studied extensively the original 15 x 6 Kelsey Hayes wheels used on the 66 GT350 Shelby's. The big problem is this, they are still being described in the BAT ad as "refurbished". No matter what anyone says these wheels are not refurbished they are re-created, there is a big difference. The spiders are Kelsey Hayes, but from an unknown wheel, which is OK, because they all look the same. The barrels are new and welded together They actually look very nice from the outside but really wrong on the inside, also welded not riveted. They are very good looking wheels and will work great for someone who doesn't need correct originals.
Re-created, not refurbished would be the honest description. Still, I wish Ruben the best of luck with his ad, and I hope the wheels find the perfect home.

[Shelby_r_b]

I have to say: I never thought that a set of steel wheels listed for sale would cause so much consternation.

Tim - thanks for sharing! I remember you sharing that story at last year's SAAC about having to create 3 steel wheels. I cannot imagine how much of a pain that must have been!

Bob - thanks for the clarification. Always appreciated!

Karl - I hear you, and let me ask you this: if someone replaces a fender on their Shelby during their restoration, does this make the Shelby a "recreation"? What about both quarters and a floor pan? Where does one draw the line? I don't know your car, but I'm guessing at least something has been replaced, even if it's just wearables. Does that make it a recreation? I hope not.

Also, you keep referencing 1966 Shelbys. Do you realize that there were two widths of 15" steel wheels in 1965? 5.5" and 6". Does restoring an original 15x5.5" as a 15x6" wheel make it a recreation? I beg to differ. And you're entitled to your opinion.

In any case, I look forward to how this auction ends.

Thanks to all!

[Karguy]

We are clearly talking about the 15 x 6" wheels, they are different than the 5 1/2 inch wheels which were typically welded. No, I don't believe changing a fender or a quarter panel or other parts make a real Shelby a re-creation, that would be considered a "refurbished" vehicle or restored. This is like comparing a cloned Car which would be a "re-creation" to a "refurbished" car which would be a restored Car.
All that said, I truly wish you all the luck in the world selling your wheels, they are very nice and I look forward to seeing what the final number is. I hope they find a great home.

[Shelby_r_b]

I appreciate the well wishes, Karl. Truly!

Have a great weekend,
Ruben