The future of the SAAC

[Cobra Ned]

"Mystery person Ken?" Seriously? That ten year old press release refers to Ken Eber, who Carroll Shelby essentially blackballed way back then. He walked away from the club and hasn't had anything to do with it since.

[gt350hr]

If SAAC is a business where do the profits go ? To the gang of 8 listed ?

  Why worry? SAAC is not a multi million dollar enterprise. If you think it is , make Curt an offer.

[2112]

If SAAC is a business where do the profits go ? To the gang of 8 listed ?

  Why worry? SAAC is not a multi million dollar enterprise. If you think it is , make Curt an offer.

I would be surprised if there was much left over after expenses/taxes.

[Greg]

"Mystery person Ken?" Seriously? That ten year old press release refers to Ken Eber, who Carroll Shelby essentially blackballed way back then. He walked away from the club and hasn't had anything to do with it since.

Cobra Ned, believe it or not, I didn't know who Ken was but since you thought I should, I interwebbed him and found this.  I know this is old news to you but it is actually not to me and probably not to others.


Gardena, CA. December 8, 2007 — Carroll Shelby, CEO of Carroll Shelby Licensing Inc., (CSL) has issued a statement in response to allegations made by the owners of the organization formerly known as the Shelby American Automobile Club.

"I wanted to explain my concerns to the members of the Shelby American Automobile Club directly, but couldn't because SAAC has refused to give me a list of its members, even though the licensee agreement with SAAC requires them to allow me access to their books and records. So I am being forced to share the facts through a news release.

Rick Kopec and Ken Eber, two of the individuals who run the for-profit business called SAAC, have said that they don't know why we didn't renew their annual license. That's not true. We've sent e-mails, made phone calls and mailed letters explaining our concerns for quite some time. Except for the message noted at http://www.shelbylicensing.com./press.htm, they went unanswered. For the past several years, I've repeatedly told them that I was unhappy with their disregard of the reporting requirements of their license agreement and the way they managed the club. And, for the past eight years, their business hasn't kept the terms of its extremely favorable agreement with my licensing company, Carroll Shelby Licensing.

Here are the primary reasons that we did not renew the license for this business:

— For many years, I loaned truckloads of memorabilia to the club and provided 1960s production records for the registry; Kopec and Eber promised that everything would be returned to me whenever I asked. In fact, that's what Kopec admits to on page 11 of the last printed edition of the "Shelby American World Registry," which was published in 1997. But they have refused to do so, and I'm told they have sold many of the items, like cancelled Shelby American checks, over the Internet and the like. This is not what anyone had in mind when I let them borrow my things, or my licensing company granted them a license.

— Under the terms of their licensing agreement with CSL, they were required to provide annual and quarterly sales reports, as well as certified statements of sales and a full audit. Also, if requested, they were to allow us 'free and full access' to their books, records and accounts. They have not done any of these things, even though I've personally asked them many times.

— They've never provided proof of the basic liability insurance required by the license agreement. This could expose me personally and all of my companies to enormous liability.

— They failed for nine years to even ask for, much less receive advance approvals from CSL of the thousands of products and product designs they've been selling under license, even though the license agreement clearly states that this failure is grounds for "immediate" termination.

— They didn't even pay the $1 per year licensing fee for the past nine years.

— CSL not only has the right not to renew SAAC's license (which was made for only one year at a time for a reason), but in light of their continued disregard for the license agreement requirements, my trademarks and other intellectual property rights are at great risk if I allow this to continue.

Kopec and Eber say SAAC has 5,000 members who pay almost a quarter-million dollars in dues each year. Then there are advertising revenues, sponsorships and money made at the SAAC national convention. In return, from what I can tell, members receive just one mediocre publication and a couple of classified advertising newsletters.

And where is the Registry that has been promised year after year? The last one was published 10 years ago. I have received many calls from people who have paid hundreds of dollars for a Registry; they have threatened lawsuits against me and my companies because they have not received their book. The basic information in the Registry about colors, how many cars were built, etc., should be regularly updated and available online for instant access by members.

Kopec and Eber recently offered sponsorship of the club to a kit car maker. I have no issue with the individuals who buy kit cars and love the Shelby brand. But, would GM let Chrysler sponsor the Corvette Club? Would Harley Davidson ignore an attempt by Kawasaki to sponsor the Harley Owners Group?

I tried for years to address changes that should be made, but my requests fell on deaf ears. Some of the correspondence concerning this matter can be found at www.shelbylicensing.com. So my licensing company and I asked Eber and Kopec to return the 1960s records and items they originally promised to give back to me, as well as those they have collected over the years using my name under license. And I told them that they can't use my name or the name of my company anymore, and to dispose of their inventory as required by the license agreement.

Now they want club members to give them hard-earned money to defend their business interests. Eber and Kopec are asking people to help sue me when they won't even tell anyone, much less my licensing company, how much money the club has made over the years collecting member dues and selling 'Shelby' memorabilia and merchandise for a royalty fee of only $1.00. Are they fighting me because they're really afraid for the Registry or do they fear giving us financials, which they've been required to do, but refused?

Shelby enthusiasts, as well as SAAC club members and registrars deserve better. They should have a club that provides good value and benefits everyone who is involved. They deserve a club that leverages technology to share information and runs events that encourage people to enjoy their cars. They deserve to be treated with class and respect. To say that Team Shelby will negatively impact the value of Shelby cars is ridiculous.

I've received probably 250 telephone calls from people asking me to check on whether a particular Cobra or Mustang they wanted to buy is authentic. The next thing I hear from them is that Ken Eber has bought it. Where I come from, when there's that much smoke there's usually some sort of fire!

Also, I've been told many times by members that Ken Eber has said that he doesn't need Carroll Shelby. Well, now he won't have to bother with me and I won't have to bother with him. And, it seems to me that they make enough money that they don't need to go around poor-mouthing to the Club members to finance their legal defense fund against me. Shame on both of them! And, as far as Ken and Rick's associate, Mr. Pardee, the Club members should ask him how much of my personal memorabilia is being stored in his garage that, by all rights, should come back to me. Even though the three of them have slandered me by making public statements that I am 'evil,' I'm still entitled to get my personal belongings back. Who can disagree with that?

The bottom line is my legacy should be left in the hands of my family and real enthusiasts. I want to extend an offer to the local clubs to contact my office and arrange for a license to use the Shelby and Cobra name at the same base cost that we offered SAAC of $1. This will allow them to continue their great work.

It's my right to stop letting someone use my name and the name of my legacy company, Shelby American, when they won't listen to me or keep the terms of the licensing agreement they signed many years ago. Team Shelby won't be run that way. You have my word on it."

[CharlesTurner]

Why does it seem like every conversation on this forum ends up being about whether or not the cars are driven?  Seriously, it's just a choice, neither one is 'right'.

Personally, this is one of the biggest turn-off's of this forum.

[TLea]

Personally, this is one of the biggest turn-off's of this forum.

oh there are others 

[Greg]

I also found this from the owner Mr. Kopec explaining his vision to Hemmings for his business and it appears to be as he envisioned it.  In reading this I don't think anyone should have any issues with the SAAC IMO......

"If you've ever been a member of one, you could either have found a bunch of fun-loving, like-minded, inclusive individuals who made owning your particular brand of vehicle even more enjoyable, or you could have suffered through endless meetings full of political movers and shakers whose only interest was toppling the current leadership.

Rick Kopec and his business partner Ken Eber wanted to be sure they had plenty of the first examples, and none of the second.
Roll back to 1972. "At the time, there were two significant Shelby clubs in the United States: the Shelby Owners Association (SOA), based in Long Island, and the Cobra Club, based in Michigan," says Kopec. "You've got to remember," he reminds us, "these Shelby cars were just used cars at the time. They were at their lowest ebb in terms of value."
In 1974, Kopec was a member of the SOA and was one of a small group who had some ideas about changing how the club was run, beginning with its conventions. "I remember that Carroll Shelby was going to speak for the first time at the convention in Wichita, Kansas. There was this young guy-a club member-who wanted to see Shelby speak, but he wasn't interested in having dinner," which was an additional charge. "The people who ran the club kept him out of the banquet hall-forcibly-because he was interested in seeing Shelby, but would've been happy getting a hamburger down the street," says Kopec. "I didn't think that was right, and I thought we should change the rules."
Kopec went with an agenda and a platform that he would use to get more involved in the club. He was scheduled to present his proposals at the club's annual board meeting, but he got a surprise when he arrived. "They held the meeting two hours early," he remembers. "A lot of car clubs expend a lot of energy fighting off special interest groups and power plays. It depletes the treasury. I didn't want to be involved in any organization if I had to always be looking over my shoulder trying to figure out who was going to make a play for the office," he says.
Ken Eber and two other enthusiasts agreed with Kopec, and they set off to run their club like a business. And the Shelby American Auto Club (SAAC) was born. The leader of The Cobra Club, coincidentally, was at the end of his interest level of running the club, so the SAAC managed to take over its list of members and its treasury. "They had about 600 members in the club at the time, and we committed to honor those memberships until they expired. They had about 700 bucks in the treasury," Rick notes. "We went to 2,500 members in the first year." Today, the club's membership routinely runs closer to 5,000 in the U.S. alone.
In the intervening years, two of the original founders dropped out, so control of the entire club fell to Kopec and Ken Eber. "Without trying to create a dictatorship-which in a sense, it is-we decided to run this club like we would any other corporation. It just works," he says. Kopec's responsibilities include organizing the club's annual conventions, as well as editing its twice-a-year glossy magazine and the monthly club newsletter. Eber, who holds a master's degree in business administration, handles the contracts, bookkeeping, taxes and legal responsibilities. "In 30 years, we've never gone to the mat on anything," Rick says. "It's pretty amazing that we both see things from the same perspective."

[camp upshur]

I have no bone to pick w SAAC and (except for the Registries) the creeping of time, technology, gentrification/ value of cars have pretty much minimized SAAC operationally.
The catastrophic loss of the forum really highlighted the value of the forum as an online technical/historical/automotive library of considerable energy. Even more granular, there was a small but extremely knowledgeable group who contributed so so much freely of quality information which benefited many owners, restorers, buyers, sellers and fans.  I believe the center of gravity had slowly shifted to the forum for our hobby.
Who was to know that it was essentially unattended, not backed up, and not even really SAAC?
If this forum cannot somehow be resuscitated our doom may be quicker than we think (it doesn't look like SAAC will be of any help).

-What left me aghast was that after this forum opened, there were postings which insulted long term members who really contributed so much usable research for many years. This chilled many who had done so much for all of us and really didn't owe anybody anything here.
-Pictures. What more can be said? Without the ability to readily post, exchange and enjoy pictures.......

The 'ownership', culture and usability now are not what the former forum was (or presumed to be). Who would have thunk that we were so rudderless and of such quality?

[terlingua11]

Some good reading here from SAAC's side if you have the time:

http://www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?3447-SAAC-vs-Carroll-Shelby

[TOBKOB]

2 of those names are counted twice. A secretary is a principle?

If I rermember correctly a corporate secretary is a principle just like treasurer is.

TOB

[Cobra Ned]

The discussions in the Noble Forums lay out the reality of the situation. They should be required reading. And the person who suggested that Rick Kopec "is making a living selling Registries" needs his head examined.

[Dsten]

Saac Facebook site states nonprofit organization,
Just like any 501c.  Monies back in after expenses, if it was not I doubt
Saac would exsist at all. 

[FL SAAC]

Agreed Ned + 1

The discussions in the Noble Forums lay out the reality of the situation. They should be required reading. And the person who suggested that Rick Kopec "is making a living selling Registries" needs his head examined.

[zray]

I also found this from the owner Mr. Kopec explaining his vision to Hemmings for his business and it appears to be as he envisioned it.  In reading this I don't think anyone should have any issues with the SAAC IMO......

"......The leader of The Cobra Club, coincidentally, was at the end of his interest level of running the club, so the SAAC managed to take over its list of members

that is what my South American friends used to call a "..a coup, in which the former banana republic president conveniently and prudently 'retires' to another country, never to return...."

Z

[greekz]

Another thought from the peanut gallery.

SAAC
As far as SAAC goes, I hope it is still around long after I am worm bait.  For the cost of dues ($50 I think) or $4 and change each month, the annual alone is a good return on the cost.  Throw in a yearly convention and it is a great deal.  Heck, some spend $4 and change each day for their favorite cup of coffee and in a few hours it is flowing down the sewer system.  Sooner, if you are my age!  The annuals, however, are a resource one can refer to whenever the need arises.  Everywhere I drive my cars, be it out for breakfast, car shows, or cruises  I find young folks very interested in the cars.  The problem is the cars are out of their price range.  When you can buy a new mustang for about one third the price, with more horsepower, better handling, and virtually trouble free, it is no wonder they gravitate to new cars.   Other than us old gearheads, who else wants to tinker around with these beasts. Maybe in the future the value will decrease and they again will be more affordable.  My concern is the movement to have us become drones being carted around in non-descript self-driving electric cars.  Now that is a blow to our hobby.  I, for one, have no complaints about SAAC.

Forum
As you can see from my number of posts, I do not post much. I do like to read most of the threads pertaining to what is correct for each year of Shelby.
I have gained a boatload of information for free, and have made contacts that have responded to my questions willingly.  When I restored my '67 back in the late 1980's, I did not have this resource at my disposal.  Much of the information came from cars I saw at local shows, or in magazines.  As we know, these are not the most accurate places to obtain information.  Therefore, things I did then, I am correcting little by little now.   Also, the forum has been a great place to acquire correctly made reproduction parts that are not readily available from the vendors.  Is this version of the forum perfect, not hardly, but still a great resource. 


Best,

Greek