The future of the SAAC

[shelbydoug]

And the person who suggested that Rick Kopec "is making a living selling Registries" needs his head examined.

His house is modest, as is his demeanor and family. Money wise, rumor has it he buried his ill gotten gains along the inside of "The Hook", just down the road from his home. Further rumors are that Howard kept mumbling in his sleep about "was it five or six paces, then turn right"...........

As for the rest, some clearly have a chip on their shoulder, many others do not, I'll leave it to all who read the posts in this thread to decide for themselves which is which and leave it at that.

Kopec is not an eccentric billionaire that does this all for free. Where exactly do you think his income comes from? I heard he has potential as an underwear model? He's a little shy about applying for that. He doesn't like interviews.  I think that information came from Parde?

SAAC IS a corporation with the term Club in it's title. It hasn't been a club since the beginning. The only thing that has really changed since 1975 is the reality of what a livable income is now. SAAC pays a salary. That's a modest salary. So modest he is stuck with just Hawaiian shirts for his wardrobe.


The reality is, this is so much more then a full time job and the reality is there is quite a large list of members that have made quite a bit as a result of the success of SAAC and frankly I would put Shelby at the top of that.

Let's be frank, there ARE people here that are in the restoration business, parts business and reselling business that without SAAC would just be shop teachers or gas station attendants.

It is SAAC that convinced Ford that Shelby was someone that they wanted back on their team rather then over there at Chrysler. Regardless of how you feel now about Eber, it WAS Kopec and Eber all of those years.

What went down with them and Shelby is partially resentment on Shelby's part but if they had not started SAAC Shelby would have become an unknown on his big game farm in Africa.



Kopec really is Dr.Frankestein on this, creating a monster that is SO successful that even Shelby didn't like the fact that HE could no longer financially control the market place and his "friends" were just bitchin' about the cost that Cobras were bringing that they no longer could afford.

Sour grapes. Pure and simple.


The SAAC Registry NEVER was any of Shelby's "Intellectual Property". Ever. He NEVER had anything to do with that. He DID have influence at Ford in encouraging Ford to offer SAAC access to "paper" records that were about to be destroyed.


As far as complaining about the Forum, there is something going on here on this Forum. People who were big participants in the past are just gone now. They all have their own reasons. The Administrator can not get that back.

The Administrator CAN fix the picture posting issue. Ask Ron why he won't when you see him at the convention.



THE question remains, WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM SAAC?

[Chris Thauberger]

When you see a thread like this one http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=2355.0 you have to wonder where the issue with the forum is.

Guy asks a question, posts a few pictures to get his point across, receives several responses, problem solved.

So where's the problem?



Maybe some are just overthinking this 

Chris

[TOBKOB]

As far as complaining about the Forum, there is something going on here on this Forum. People who were big participants in the past are just gone now. They all have their own reasons. The Administrator can not get that back.

I would just bet they still visit the forum and if and when the afore mentioned problems are corrected and everyone quits bitchin they will be back. At least I hope so. I have gained so much knowledge from this forum as well as the Concours Mustang forum over the years that I was able to restore #2060 to Gold level at SAAC 42. Without those folks I would never have been able to accomplish that. Many thanks to those that contributed their time and knowledge to the old forum and please help make the new forum as good as the old one. Also Mr. Administrator, please address these mentioned issues so everyone can settle down and get back to the business of restoring and enjoying our Shelbys again. If it involves $$$ please start a thread and I fell certain most of us would contribute to such a good cause. Just my two cents worth...

TOB

[Coralsnake]

If you want to see forum participation decrease even more, start charging people. The forum is not the issue, its the lack of adult supervision.

I made a suggestion on the original forum about policing regional club posts on a world wide forum. Now you are seeing the results of no moderation.

I also complained on 2.0 about people making things personal. Its not funny when people start sending threatening letters to your home or business...the response I got was " lighten up"

Welcome all...you are reaping what you have sown. If you dont weed your garden, the weeds will take over.

Its nearly identical to the SAAC concours in my opinion, people make suggestions and nothing ever comes of it. A lot of experienced, good people who are promoting the cars are left behind, for others selfish reasons. Take a few more good restorers out of the mix and you will have a total collapse.

Its unfortunate because the club does not properly support concours, but they need concours and people want concours.

SAAC has survived this long, they dont need to listen to your suggestions or criticism.

[427heaven]

^^^^^ You are very accurate in most statements and I whole heartedly agree except the last statement... They don't need to listen, BUT..... It would be in everyones interest if they did. I got a LIGHTEN UP message but I stuck around- Most left never to return. After talking to a few they said they are done the CLUB is broken. Looking and listening I somewhat agree at least fractured maybe it could be mended?

[davez]

When you see a thread like this one http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=2355.0 you have to wonder where the issue with the forum is.

Guy asks a question, posts a few pictures to get his point across, receives several responses, problem solved.

So where's the problem?


Good example Chris. The OP posted 2 pictures. They don't fit the screen. It's difficult to deal with looking on a cell phone.

I've posted a few pictures
Here's what I have to do to post a picture.
Go to Gallery
Go to my gallery
Add single. I've tried bulk upload and it doesn't work
Choose file
Add picture
Type in a subject. don't know why I have to do this but it's the only way it works
Go to picture
Copy the BB code and add it in the body of the post.
This is unbearable.

If I post something to ebay or craigslist it's one button without any typing. It asks where it is and I click on it on my phone or desktop. 3 seconds versus 30 to 45. The CL and ebay  pages also generally fit the  size issue as well

Its not any fun.

I have a 66 I'm just starting on. I'd like to share progress pics. paint markings, primer colors etc. If it remain this difficult I'm not doing it. If I did 100 pictures that would take an hour vs 5 min on CL. I don't have time to build galleries, do links etc. I just want to drop the photos in.

If people go to a car show and want to instantly post pictures it's a pain.

We want people to restore their info , pictures  threads from the original forum.
I think the time consuming aspect is driving people away.
It works  just not very well.
I don't know how to fix the problem, but with this many people complaining it's not a non-issue.

Answers or the original question
I'm good with what SAAC does with events, registries, etc.
In regards to the forum I used the old for restoration resource, where to go for suppliers etc.
It needs to be easier to use.

dz

[Greg]

^^^^^ You are very accurate in most statements and I whole heartedly agree except the last statement... They don't need to listen, BUT..... It would be in everyones interest if they did. I got a LIGHTEN UP message but I stuck around- Most left never to return. After talking to a few they said they are done the CLUB is broken. Looking and listening I somewhat agree at least fractured maybe it could be mended?

I think the lines get blurred..... 

Originally I was under the assumption (albeit wrong) that the SAAC was the owner and keeper of the forum and it is not.  So the issues that the 2.0 forum has can't be controlled by the owner of the SAAC nor you or I. 

I know some say that the forum is fine and it needs an oversight, others say its broken and people are leaving.  Regarding oversight, I agree but where it gets sticky is censorship.  If a person is being disrespectful then there should be a 3 strikes and your off the forum rule but in all honesty, they could just create a new account so the best course of action is for no one to engage with idiots, thereby it wouldn't need oversight.  I actually laugh at the "no stripes vs. stripes" and the "drive them and not trailer" comments as I know people are just passionate for what they like and they poke at each other.  To each his own and its your car.  Can the forum be made better and easier to use, I think everyone would say YES so maybe "computer works" is looking into this and has a long term plan but remember the SAAC has nothing to do with this.

I went to Carlisle this spring and I was surprised to only see a few 60's Shelbys there but wow, the "new blood" Shelbys were everywhere.  Remember when you were 16 to 25 and a 1965 or 67 Shelby was the going thing not a 55 ford or even a 32.  It was and you were, "new blood".  So from my take I see this, there is a changing of the guard that is and has to happen.  The new blood does respect the old iron but they want modern technology and the old iron is 3-4 times more $ than what their new car costs and the bank wont loan them the money so they don't even consider it an option. 

For those that have 60's Shelby's if they have lost interest in showing the car then they should give serious consideration to selling it, not for dirt cheap but for a reasonable market price so a new owner can get it out and show it like it once was.  The car will out live you that is for sure and wouldn't you want to pick where it goes, I know I do.  The new blood needs to see these cars with their kids and they need to sit behind the wheel.  I open my door and say have a seat and let them take as many pictures as they want.  Its not about the value, its about having a special piece of history and sharing it for a little while.

Regarding the future of the SAAC, read the original intent quoted by Mr. Kopec himself regarding his business and ask yourself, is he doing what he said....I think you will say yes.

[gt350cs]

Well said davez.

These posting issues should be fixable and I do hope that it is being addressed.

Setting those issues aside, the Forum will be what those who participate make it. We need to ignore the unnecessary comments and move on. I am hoping to see the culture that once existed here come back full force. Let's all be patient and where we can contribute continue to do so.

As far as the "Club" management is concerned. At least we have all benefit from its' existence in spite of what has been said. I for one have never been an investor in these cars. I bought my first car in 1967 because I liked what I saw. The fact that the value has gone up is a two edged sword. I would have probably owned 20 cars had the value not increased like it has. Thankful for what I do have and most likely I will never sell, but pass on to my sons. At least that is the plan for now.
 

[FL SAAC]

The old forum had a wealth of  knowledge and restoration information. We had copied many of those posts and kept them in a binder.

The old forum, like this new forum will be what you want it to be. When it went down and then back up, we decided to restore what we could. About 85% of our brief excistance. Mostly our events.

We are a very active group. Many of our members with restored cars and even low mileage late model cars, keep them hidden.

  I admire their fortitude.

We personally made the choice to drive our early and late models when possible. Because one day we wont be able to.

Again many want to see this organization disappear.

Dont let this happen, contribute what you can contribute. But most importantly have fun and keep the spirit alive.

Long live SAAC ! The true home of the REAL ONES !

Tony

Originally I was under the assumption (albeit wrong) that the SAAC was the owner and keeper of the forum and it is not.  So the issues that the 2.0 forum has can't be controlled by the owner of the SAAC nor you or I. 

I know some say that the forum is fine and it needs an oversight, others say its broken and people are leaving.  Regarding oversight, I agree but where it gets sticky is censorship.  If a person is being disrespectful then there should be a 3 strikes and your off the forum rule but in all honesty, they could just create a new account so the best course of action is for no one to engage with idiots, thereby it wouldn't need oversight.  I actually laugh at the "no stripes vs. stripes" and the "drive them and not trailer" comments as I know people are just passionate for what they like and they poke at each other.  To each his own and its your car.  Can the forum be made better and easier to use, I think everyone would say YES so maybe "computer works" is looking into this and has a long term plan but remember the SAAC has nothing to do with this.

I went to Carlisle this spring and I was surprised to only see a few 60's Shelbys there but wow, the "new blood" Shelbys were everywhere.  Remember when you were 16 to 25 and a 1965 or 67 Shelby was the going thing not a 55 ford or even a 32.  It was and you were, "new blood".  So from my take I see this, there is a changing of the guard that is and has to happen.  The new blood does respect the old iron but they want modern technology and the old iron is 3-4 times more $ than what their new car costs and the bank wont loan them the money so they don't even consider it an option. 

For those that have 60's Shelby's if they have lost interest in showing the car then they should give serious consideration to selling it, not for dirt cheap but for a reasonable market price so a new owner can get it out and show it like it once was.  The car will out live you that is for sure and wouldn't you want to pick where it goes, I know I do.  The new blood needs to see these cars with their kids and they need to sit behind the wheel.  I open my door and say have a seat and let them take as many pictures as they want.  Its not about the value, its about having a special piece of history and sharing it for a little while.

Regarding the future of the SAAC, read the original intent quoted by Mr. Kopec himself regarding his business and ask yourself, is he doing what he said....I think you will say yes.

[gt350hr]

 Let's take a look at the evolution of our "hobby" first and then how that impacts the forum. 43 years ago there was no internet and 60% of the "now known" cars weren't "known". Buying a Shelby wasn't difficult or "that" expensive to do. IIRC the first convention CS attended was SOA Wichita as I have mentioned in other threads. CS couldn't understand why such a dedicated group existed for "his " cars. They were just "his old cars" and never meant to be something people "fussed about". His attendance sparked up new enthusiasm for participants and for CS who saw this as a potential money maker. SAAC was formed with solid organization and tremendous participation forming more of a "Shelby network" in the pre internet days. There was interaction  on a 50 state level. Life was good and "Shelbyitis" became a recognizable "disease" so to speak.Car prices stayed "affordable' until the '80s  when the "electronic revolution" gave us cell phones , Internet, PCs , etc and the world started getting smaller. When the stock market crashed , investors looked to "classic cars" as an investment commodity and car values skyrocketed. True to form there was a crash and values dropped leaving many "flippers" buried in their purchases. At the same time this "awareness" and the internet sent lots of people out looking for "undiscovered cars"  or those with ''issues" that were previously "not worth fixing". My guess is now over 70% of total SAI production is "known", slowing down the "treasure hunting" aspect of our hobby . SAAC has evolved at the same time. The turmoil with CS was ridiculous ( IMHO) and caused by greed. SAAC was forced to change from a "fun group of extremely dedicated car enthusiasts" , to an entity targeted by "for hire" legal people. Yet with all of this going on SAAC survives . This is a result of SOLID leadership ( again IMHO) and a strong dedicated membership. People with short term patience will always come and go regardless of what club it is.
   The crash of the SAAC forum was not the only forum crash during that time. Several others had issues just as serious and they too continue to survive. Many criticize Ron ( or this forum) as to what he "should be doing" . Starting, running, maintaining ,etc. a forum is FAR beyond my skill set as I am barely able to type correctly on this keyboard. "I" choose to express the passion I have for SAI vehicles ( from 62-70) on this forum. Thankfully others do to. SAAC has never been "perfect" and I hope it never will be so that it will continue to evolve and prosper but it can't be done by those who run when challenged. Purists and enthusiasts when combined have formidable strength and can keep the opportunists at bay.
   That was about 10 cents worth of "my opinion"
      Thanks for the time,
       Randy Gillis

[FL SAAC]

Agreed Mr Gillis

[TA22 (Gary Goeringer)]

+1 Randy

[Chad]

I just wish this topic would be dropped because I do not have the time to keep up with all the posts!!  SAAC is a business.  If you do not like it go start your own Shelby club!!!

[BGlover67]

Randy really hit it on the head when he said it all comes down to the increased value of these cars.  In many ways it really did ruin the hobby.  But interestingly, I recently noticed a sharp decline in collector car prices across the board (although not necessarily Shelbys).  Buick Grand Nationals, little T-Birds, C1 Vettes and MG TC's all down.   I imagine that has got to do with the change in age demographics.  I can't help but hope that at this rate maybe someday I might just be able to afford an original Cobra.  Who knows?  I'm not sure how places like Legendary Motorworks will fair in the future unless they start investing heavily in Toyota Supras. 

[Don Johnston]

The only reason that I care who sits on the SAAC board is so I can thank them for what they do and provide.  Much like a private country club membership, as long as I feel the dues are appropriate to the value of what the club provides to me and other members, I sustain my membership and enjoy the benefits. 
The war is over.  Only those in the room of negotiations know the full story and nasty hassles that they had to go through.
There is nothing to be gained by by bring back the ill feelings. It was a bad divorce and many long term friendships were destroyed.  But SAAC carries on.  And so does SA and Team Shelby.  For me, I finally had to "let it go" (music in background) and get back to enjoying the people and the cars.

So many volunteers work through tedious materials for hundreds of hours that provide us with an amazing value.  If some are paid, I really do not care. 

See you at the convention for some more SAAC fun!