Cooling a 428

[Brandon]

Hey all,

Have been driving my 428 a handful of times this summer, and notice my temps can sometimes creep up to about 1-/8" away from the high line of the sweep (not the far right).  This is with freeway (not track driving), and in the ballpark of 210-220 degrees.

What are others running at?  For those that drive these on a more regular basis, what options are there to keep them running cool?

[zray]

There is nothing wrong with a Ford V-8 from the 1960's having coolant temperatures from 190-220 F. If you look in the Ford published shop manual you will see that the stock 195 thermostat your car came with is not even fully open until 212 F.   Cars that run under 190-220 will have increased cylinder wear, contaminated oil and make less horsepower as well. You do not want your engine to run under 190, ever after it was warmed up fully. And you need a 195 thermostat installed to make sure it can warn up as fast as possible.

Z

[corbins]

There is nothing wrong with a Ford V-8 from the 1960's having coolant temperatures from 190-220 F. If you look in the Ford published shop manual you will see that the stock 195 thermostat your car came with is not even fully open until 212 F.   Cars that run under 190-220 will have increased cylinder wear, contaminated oil and make less horsepower as well. You do not want your engine to run under 190, ever after it was warmed up fully. And you need a 195 thermostat installed to make sure it can warn up as fast as possible.

Z

+1

[Bob Gaines]

If your GT500 engine overheats and pukes coolant and or the starter drags when you try to re start it then it is doing something that it is not supposed to do. The symptoms are common with a BB more so then with a SB especially in hot humid conditions.   There are things that can be done to help eliminate that situation. You have my number if you want to discuss.

[shelbydoug]

There is nothing wrong with a Ford V-8 from the 1960's having coolant temperatures from 190-220 F. If you look in the Ford published shop manual you will see that the stock 195 thermostat your car came with is not even fully open until 212 F.   Cars that run under 190-220 will have increased cylinder wear, contaminated oil and make less horsepower as well. You do not want your engine to run under 190, ever after it was warmed up fully. And you need a 195 thermostat installed to make sure it can warn up as fast as possible.

Z

Absolutely correct. The car is not overheating at those temps.

Just for the sake of discussion though, the car will run cooler on 106 leaded racing gas simply because it doesn't generate as much heat as lower octanes.

[zray]

There are several non-invasive band-aids that will help lower the engine temperature incrementally. But increments may be all you need to be more comfortable with your car:

1).  If your climate will allow, do not use antifreeze. Use distilled water + water-wetter.

2) adjust  the initial timing slightly to be more advanced. This will reduce the engine temp at low (rpm) speeds.  You can run up to 16 - 18 degrees initial timing if you use the alternate mechanical timing slot in the stock distributor which will reduce total timing back to stock even with more initial. .   If  this causes your starter to drag in hot weather, just back the off a little until starter operation is normal.

3) use full manifold vacuum instead of ported vacuum for your distributor vacuum advance. Again, this will advance the timing more (only at idle) which in turn lower the engine temperature when stuck in traffic, etc.

4) More invasive;  install a FlowKooler water pump, the one with their new(er) 16 blade impeller.  This will aid in low rpm cooling vs. a stock water pump.

Z

[propayne]

Also, if you have a clutch fan, make sure that it is operating properly.

Switching out mine is what cured the running hot issues on my 390.

- Phillip

[KR Convertible]

^^^+1. And don't cheap out.  I used a $50 Advance Auto one to diagnose mine and then spent months chasing my tail!  If you are trying to keep the car original looking, get one of Chris Brown's repro units.  Looks and works great.  I dropped 20+ degrees after installing it.

[KR Convertible]

I would also recommend installing a mechanical temp gauge.  Test it in boiling water to confirm accuracy.  I used the port for the vacuum switch, so I can use both gauges and compare.

[Bob Gaines]

There are several non-invasive band-aids that will help lower the engine temperature incrementally. But increments may be all you need to be more comfortable with your car:

1).  If your climate will allow, do not use antifreeze. Use distilled water + water-wetter.

2) adjust  the initial timing slightly to be more advanced. This will reduce the engine temp at low (rpm) speeds.  You can run up to 16 - 18 degrees initial timing if you use the alternate mechanical timing slot in the stock distributor which will reduce total timing back to stock even with more initial. .   If  this causes your starter to drag in hot weather, just back the off a little until starter operation is normal.

3) use full manifold vacuum instead of ported vacuum for your distributor vacuum advance. Again, this will advance the timing more (only at idle) which in turn lower the engine temperature when stuck in traffic, etc.

4) More invasive;  install a FlowKooler water pump, the one with their new(er) 16 blade impeller.  This will aid in low rpm cooling vs. a stock water pump.

Z

3) is not applicable to 1967 428 given the duel point mechanical advance dist that is the typical stock distributor. 68 up has vacuum advance.

[zray]

There are several non-invasive band-aids that will help lower the engine temperature incrementally. But increments may be all you need to be more comfortable with your car:

1).  If your climate will allow, do not use antifreeze. Use distilled water + water-wetter.

2) adjust  the initial timing slightly to be more advanced. This will reduce the engine temp at low (rpm) speeds.  You can run up to 16 - 18 degrees initial timing if you use the alternate mechanical timing slot in the stock distributor which will reduce total timing back to stock even with more initial. .   If  this causes your starter to drag in hot weather, just back the off a little until starter operation is normal.

3) use full manifold vacuum instead of ported vacuum for your distributor vacuum advance. Again, this will advance the timing more (only at idle) which in turn lower the engine temperature when stuck in traffic, etc.

4) More invasive;  install a FlowKooler water pump, the one with their new(er) 16 blade impeller.  This will aid in low rpm cooling vs. a stock water pump.

Z

3) is not applicable to 1967 428 given the duel point mechanical advance dist that is the typical stock distributor. 68 up has vacuum advance.

thanks for the clarification Bob.

I should have mentioned I was speaking in generalities and not directing comments in reference to  one particular engine.

Z.

[Brandon]

^^^+1. And don't cheap out.  I used a $50 Advance Auto one to diagnose mine and then spent months chasing my tail!  If you are trying to keep the car original looking, get one of Chris Brown's repro units.  Looks and works great.  I dropped 20+ degrees after installing it.

What's the best way to actually test the clutch fan?

[KR Convertible]

There's no good way that I know of.  That's why I bought a cheap one to diagnose the problem.  The car actually ran a little hotter with the new one, so I dismissed the clutch as the problem and spent weeks maximizing everything else.  The clutch I had was the wrong part number(C7ZE-B), so I decided to break down and buy the right one(C8ZX-A) from Chris Brown.  I think mine is correct for a 67.  I was surprised how tight it felt, and extremely happy when my car ran around 20 degrees cooler.

If I push the fan with one finger quickly and stop, the fan does not free wheel at all.  With the original one, it would free wheel an inch or two away from my finger.  This is a highly technical test!   

[propayne]

^^^ That's what my engine builder did - spun my brand new repopped clutch fan by hand and said he suspected it was not working properly.

While the engine was running, he took his baseball cap off and place it against the radiator and when he let it go there was not enough pull/suction to hold the hat against the radiator and it fell.

I too ordered a clutch fan from Chris Brown and when we installed it we did the "hat trick" again and this time it got sucked right up against the rad and was held there and the engine temps dropped - after we removed the hat. I did not drive around with the hat stuck to my rad....

- Phillip

[Brandon]

What's Chris Brown's contact info?  Is he the only one doing this?

I see this listing for a 67:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/173368976597