1967 restoring interior - how much paint to buy?

[Shawn]

I have completely removed the interior from my 67.  Going to freshen up all interior panels, doors and dash area.  Any idea on how many spray cans will be needed? 

[Bob Gaines]

I have completely removed the interior from my 67.  Going to freshen up all interior panels, doors and dash area.  Any idea on how many spray cans will be needed?

I typically spray from a gun so I can't help you there but can help in case you are not aware that if it is a black interior it is actually a dark gray metallic and not black. NPD sells it in spray cans.

[JD]

Might look at this thread...

https://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=13940.msg115526#msg115526

... as to how much paint, a quart with the flatten and solvent can do it all BUT you better have a good dark base (flat black or hot rod /dark gray primer) as it doesn't cover and don't fill the stamped metal "grain" or sand it away.

[shelbydoug]

JD. My 67 is MUCH flatter then my 68. Did you find a place to buy that with already the right amount of flattening in it?

I have found that the spray cans are not flat at all.

I remember that you talked about this and adding flattening agent until it was right.

The moldings on my 67 from the factory are so flattened that they almost have a sandy texture to them.

[JD]

Yes, had to add flattener, don't quote me going from memory but, it may have been 15% flattener we added

If Rodney Harrold reads this maybe he'll chime-in.

Sorry differnt Rod

[Shawn]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  Much appreciated

[shelbydoug]

I would have liked to have more then one quart to do the entire interior but you really don't need a full two quarts.

I used a premixed formula which was pretty close. It could have been flatter for the '68 but definitely not flat enough for the '67.

The '67 is at a whole different level of flat.

When I tried to buy flattening agent separately, I just got blank stares and "empty air".

The 67 interior isn't painted yet but it is obvious it requires a unique approach to get where it should be.

[roddster]

  If JD is referring to me, I bought 3 spray cans for my tribute car.  I have one left over.  This is coupe so no back panel coverage was needed.   The "SEMS" paint seems thin so with a fastback you might want to buy 4 cans.
   And as mentioned, spray it over a dark first coat.

   As far as the gloss goes, I have a hard time figuring what is correct and what is not.  I look at some Concours cars and decide if my application is too glossy or too dull.  I can see why folks like Bob would mix it themselves.

[1175]

I went through this not too long ago.  I used rattle cans.  I did it in 3 stages.  Base coat of black enamel, the metallic charcoal (lacquer based) and matte clear lacquer over the top.

Fix imperfections and spray everything with black enamel.  I used krylon fusion.  Light coats are the key.

Technique on 2nd and 3rd coats are key as you almost want to fog or dry spray the metallic charcoal at a distance over the top.  You do not want a wet looking finish.  I did the same dry spray technique with  automotive grade matte clear lacquer. 

I'd buy at least 4 cans of the metallic charcoal to be safe.

This worked for me but results may vary.

Jon

[shelbymann1970]

I went through this not too long ago.  I used rattle cans.  I did it in 3 stages.  Base coat of black enamel, the metallic charcoal (lacquer based) and matte clear lacquer over the top.

Fix imperfections and spray everything with black enamel.  I used krylon fusion.  Light coats are the key.

Technique on 2nd and 3rd coats are key as you almost want to fog or dry spray the metallic charcoal at a distance over the top.  You do not want a wet looking finish.  I did the same dry spray technique with  automotive grade matte clear lacquer. 

I'd buy at least 4 cans of the metallic charcoal to be safe.

This worked for me but results may vary.

Jon

I use flat black primer. THIN stuff as a base then do the charcoal. I've done it with rattle cans and gun sprayed PPG quart for the larger pieces .More uniform spraying from a gun. about 6 months ago did a boatload of pieces(spares) of 69 parts. Been doing it this way for over 30 years. With the rattle cans I like the cheap black primer. Never use that 2X stuff.If it is a fold down DP 90 would work great as it serves a few purposes for the trap door and the lower dash. 

[KR500]

Yes, had to add flattener, don't quote me going from memory but, it may have been 15% flattener we added

If Rodney Harrold reads this maybe he'll chime-in.

Sorry differnt Rod

This is what I have found using the PPG product in the Ford Charcoal Metallic color. Other products will produces different results! First of all unlike the exterior paint Ford used acrylic lacquer on the interior paint. Way back in the late 80's I used DuPont's acrylic lacquer for the interior. It was great. perfect color , gloss and coverage was excellent with no need of a dark color base. Fast forward to the early 2000's DuPont does not make any lacquer based paints. Search around and the only major paint manufacture offering acrylic lacquer is PPG and only maybe 3 jobbers in the country still had the tints and base to mix it. Mix and reduce as per manufacture, color was very very translucent. Many coats and still could see the base panel. Get more paint! Round 2 I applied a dark grey primer. That solved the coverage issue. Gloss was still to high though. Round 3 added some flattener ( Note this color's formula is a semi-gloss so it has flattener in it to start with). I don't recall exactly how much but probably in the 10-15% range. That got the paint spot on (it was on a 67 GT500). I don't know if PPG even offers acrylic lacquer any more. A couple of things about automotive paint, especially a semi gloss acrylic lacquer. Gloss level WILL be affected by temperature, humidity, amount of reduction,reducer speed, air pressure, fan/fluid gun settings, gun to panel distance, number of coats and flash time between coats among other things. These variables can also influence color especially with a metallic color. Speaking of metallic, most of the cars I have judged lately the metallic flake in this color has been very hard to see, way to small of a flake. Hard to tell it was even a metallic color. I have no idea of what product was used. One major reason that paint from the past had excellent coverage vs modern paint is they used lead based tints, same reason modern BC/CC paint formulas of the same color don't look like they did back in the day. High quality painting is not easy!
Rodney Harrold

[shelbymann1970]

Yes, had to add flattener, don't quote me going from memory but, it may have been 15% flattener we added

If Rodney Harrold reads this maybe he'll chime-in.

Sorry differnt Rod

This is what I have found using the PPG product in the Ford Charcoal Metallic color. Other products will produces different results! First of all unlike the exterior paint Ford used acrylic lacquer on the interior paint. Way back in the late 80's I used DuPont's acrylic lacquer for the interior. It was great. perfect color , gloss and coverage was excellent with no need of a dark color base. Fast forward to the early 2000's DuPont does not make any lacquer based paints. Search around and the only major paint manufacture offering acrylic lacquer is PPG and only maybe 3 jobbers in the country still had the tints and base to mix it. Mix and reduce as per manufacture, color was very very translucent. Many coats and still could see the base panel. Get more paint! Round 2 I applied a dark grey primer. That solved the coverage issue. Gloss was still to high though. Round 3 added some flattener ( Note this color's formula is a semi-gloss so it has flattener in it to start with). I don't recall exactly how much but probably in the 10-15% range. That got the paint spot on (it was on a 67 GT500). I don't know if PPG even offers acrylic lacquer any more. A couple of things about automotive paint, especially a semi gloss acrylic lacquer. Gloss level WILL be affected by temperature, humidity, amount of reduction,reducer speed, air pressure, fan/fluid gun settings, gun to panel distance, number of coats and flash time between coats among other things. These variables can also influence color especially with a metallic color. Speaking of metallic, most of the cars I have judged lately the metallic flake in this color has been very hard to see, way to small of a flake. Hard to tell it was even a metallic color. I have no idea of what product was used. One major reason that paint from the past had excellent coverage vs modern paint is they used lead based tints, same reason modern BC/CC paint formulas of the same color don't look like they did back in the day. High quality painting is not easy!
Rodney Harrold

Everything you said is spot on. So with that being said you could then say back in the 60s when this was being done in a production setting even controlled there would be variances on satin parts, right? Depending on the time of year doing engine compartments with rattle cans(yes, rattle cans) I have found that I must use a product that matches my environment since I don't have a 40K spray booth. Sometimes that is trial and error but I promised my wife after doing this(see pics) in my attached garage I will never do it at this scope again(PPG single stage enamel).
BTW at Kar Kraft Larry Lawrance had nothing but issues painting 69 Boss 429 hood scoops. Even the Ford paint engineer couldn't solve his problem so they switched from enamel to Lacquer and problem solved. I should have asked them was that the reason 70 hood scoops were all non gloss black. Gary

[JD]

Yes, had to add flattener, don't quote me going from memory but, it may have been 15% flattener we added

If Rodney Harrold reads this maybe he'll chime-in.

Sorry different Rod

This is what I have found using the PPG product in the Ford Charcoal Metallic color. Other products will produces different results! First of all unlike the exterior paint Ford used acrylic lacquer on the interior paint. Way back in the late 80's I used DuPont's acrylic lacquer for the interior. It was great. perfect color , gloss and coverage was excellent with no need of a dark color base. Fast forward to the early 2000's DuPont does not make any lacquer based paints. Search around and the only major paint manufacture offering acrylic lacquer is PPG and only maybe 3 jobbers in the country still had the tints and base to mix it. Mix and reduce as per manufacture, color was very very translucent. Many coats and still could see the base panel. Get more paint! Round 2 I applied a dark grey primer. That solved the coverage issue. Gloss was still to high though. Round 3 added some flattener ( Note this color's formula is a semi-gloss so it has flattener in it to start with). I don't recall exactly how much but probably in the 10-15% range. That got the paint spot on (it was on a 67 GT500). I don't know if PPG even offers acrylic lacquer any more. A couple of things about automotive paint, especially a semi gloss acrylic lacquer. Gloss level WILL be affected by temperature, humidity, amount of reduction,reducer speed, air pressure, fan/fluid gun settings, gun to panel distance, number of coats and flash time between coats among other things. These variables can also influence color especially with a metallic color. Speaking of metallic, most of the cars I have judged lately the metallic flake in this color has been very hard to see, way to small of a flake. Hard to tell it was even a metallic color. I have no idea of what product was used. One major reason that paint from the past had excellent coverage vs modern paint is they used lead based tints, same reason modern BC/CC paint formulas of the same color don't look like they did back in the day. High quality painting is not easy!
Rodney Harrold

That's it - thanks Rod!
(probably the most you've typed in a year

Back to the interior paint, here is the paint used for the third round from above...

[KR500]

Yes, had to add flattener, don't quote me going from memory but, it may have been 15% flattener we added

If Rodney Harrold reads this maybe he'll chime-in.

Sorry differnt Rod

This is what I have found using the PPG product in the Ford Charcoal Metallic color. Other products will produces different results! First of all unlike the exterior paint Ford used acrylic lacquer on the interior paint. Way back in the late 80's I used DuPont's acrylic lacquer for the interior. It was great. perfect color , gloss and coverage was excellent with no need of a dark color base. Fast forward to the early 2000's DuPont does not make any lacquer based paints. Search around and the only major paint manufacture offering acrylic lacquer is PPG and only maybe 3 jobbers in the country still had the tints and base to mix it. Mix and reduce as per manufacture, color was very very translucent. Many coats and still could see the base panel. Get more paint! Round 2 I applied a dark grey primer. That solved the coverage issue. Gloss was still to high though. Round 3 added some flattener ( Note this color's formula is a semi-gloss so it has flattener in it to start with). I don't recall exactly how much but probably in the 10-15% range. That got the paint spot on (it was on a 67 GT500). I don't know if PPG even offers acrylic lacquer any more. A couple of things about automotive paint, especially a semi gloss acrylic lacquer. Gloss level WILL be affected by temperature, humidity, amount of reduction,reducer speed, air pressure, fan/fluid gun settings, gun to panel distance, number of coats and flash time between coats among other things. These variables can also influence color especially with a metallic color. Speaking of metallic, most of the cars I have judged lately the metallic flake in this color has been very hard to see, way to small of a flake. Hard to tell it was even a metallic color. I have no idea of what product was used. One major reason that paint from the past had excellent coverage vs modern paint is they used lead based tints, same reason modern BC/CC paint formulas of the same color don't look like they did back in the day. High quality painting is not easy!
Rodney Harrold

Everything you said is spot on. So with that being said you could then say back in the 60s when this was being done in a production setting even controlled there would be variances on satin parts, right? Depending on the time of year doing engine compartments with rattle cans(yes, rattle cans) I have found that I must use a product that matches my environment since I don't have a 40K spray booth. Sometimes that is trial and error but I promised my wife after doing this(see pics) in my attached garage I will never do it at this scope again(PPG single stage enamel).
BTW at Kar Kraft Larry Lawrance had nothing but issues painting 69 Boss 429 hood scoops. Even the Ford paint engineer couldn't solve his problem so they switched from enamel to Lacquer and problem solved. I should have asked them was that the reason 70 hood scoops were all non gloss black. Gary

Gary
Yes! Even today there can be many slight variations of color of the same color right off the assembly line.

[KR500]

Yes, had to add flattener, don't quote me going from memory but, it may have been 15% flattener we added

If Rodney Harrold reads this maybe he'll chime-in.

Sorry different Rod

This is what I have found using the PPG product in the Ford Charcoal Metallic color. Other products will produces different results! First of all unlike the exterior paint Ford used acrylic lacquer on the interior paint. Way back in the late 80's I used DuPont's acrylic lacquer for the interior. It was great. perfect color , gloss and coverage was excellent with no need of a dark color base. Fast forward to the early 2000's DuPont does not make any lacquer based paints. Search around and the only major paint manufacture offering acrylic lacquer is PPG and only maybe 3 jobbers in the country still had the tints and base to mix it. Mix and reduce as per manufacture, color was very very translucent. Many coats and still could see the base panel. Get more paint! Round 2 I applied a dark grey primer. That solved the coverage issue. Gloss was still to high though. Round 3 added some flattener ( Note this color's formula is a semi-gloss so it has flattener in it to start with). I don't recall exactly how much but probably in the 10-15% range. That got the paint spot on (it was on a 67 GT500). I don't know if PPG even offers acrylic lacquer any more. A couple of things about automotive paint, especially a semi gloss acrylic lacquer. Gloss level WILL be affected by temperature, humidity, amount of reduction,reducer speed, air pressure, fan/fluid gun settings, gun to panel distance, number of coats and flash time between coats among other things. These variables can also influence color especially with a metallic color. Speaking of metallic, most of the cars I have judged lately the metallic flake in this color has been very hard to see, way to small of a flake. Hard to tell it was even a metallic color. I have no idea of what product was used. One major reason that paint from the past had excellent coverage vs modern paint is they used lead based tints, same reason modern BC/CC paint formulas of the same color don't look like they did back in the day. High quality painting is not easy!
Rodney Harrold

That's it - thanks Rod!
(probably the most you've typed in a year

Back to the interior paint, here is the paint used for the third round from above...

JD
Yes by a long shot. Got to go, fingers are tired and your Beemer is done.