Technical section T/A details

[JohnSlack]

shelbydoug,

As to the plug on the side of the Intake and what it's function is.....

As you will notice there was a fitting going into the side of the pan, inside the pan there is a baffle that prevents the oil from being drained onto the crankshaft (2nd Picture). There is the Holman Moody functional diagram that better explains everything and how it works to keep the pan full and the vacuum tank. The rear of the engine had a long pickup that scavenged the rear section of the pan since acceleration tried to make all the oil stay there.


John

[JohnSlack]

Thanks for posting the pictures. Interesting stuff.

I'm aware of the 351c's running in Pro Stock with the Wieand Tunnel Rams. As I recall they all ran with add on plenums under the carbs. The volume of the plenum was important.

I can see that the inter runner "passages" were a direction in that thinking. The issue would be to fit that all under the hood of the Mustang so the height available for the manifold caused the problem.

I remember talking to Randy right after he was working on one of these setups at the track. He was so frazzled that he didn't want to talk much about them. Just a couple of generalities about the set up.

I was asking him about the fuel reverson and what was done with that. He said his solution was just to provide a "plate" over the carbs that just provided a place for the fuel droplets to accumulate and then run off the engine where it wouldn't be a hazard.

I've worked with Weber 48 ida's a lot. I know the frustration and had all to do but laugh out loud about it? In the case of the "Webers" on my Pantera the solution was putting 5" tall stacks on the car. Then the plumes would stay in the stacks.

When I had the Webers on my Shelby, they were on a Cleveland, and the stacks had to be shorter then stock in order to fit under the hood.

You can still see the marks under the hood if you look closely where the flames from the carbs when starting it cold did a job on the paint.

The Pantera does not have that issue. Lots of room over the stacks in that car.

Which is why on the air cleaner lid that Kelly made for the Dual Autolite Inline Intake that we are experimenting with we added an inverted focal point for the fuel to condense on above each barrel. Randy Gillis was part of that conversation. It will be getting a taller.elelment, and going through the hood of the BOSS 302. (Using a glass hood)

[shelbydoug]

That may be the project of what Randy was talking to me about? You need 5" tall stacks to keep the fog in. Been there. Done that.

You can revise the cam timing. Granted it has to do with the opening and closing points of the intake and exhaust valves but to put it simply, the combination needs to in effect limit overlap to about 28°.

The more duration you have, the stronger the power pulse is generated. It has no were to go in an IR manifold so it pushes up and out.

Of course going to a hidden EFI system will effectively eliminate the issue all together.

This is part of the discussion I was having with him and why he got grumpy and short. 

[gt350shelb]

The bud moore oil pan is quite  the challenge to duplicate .

[shelbydoug]

The front of the Bud Moore pans that project out and the skid pads always caught my eye.

I had the Doug Nash B2 split magnesium intake with two of the big Autolite carbs. I traded that away. I can't remember for what now? I can't find the pics either now. That was an interesting set up.

It would have worked better with more cubes like a 347. I have that now. Not then.

That's ok though. At least I get things finished now, sort of?

[TA Coupe]

Shelbydoug, if you click on GrabberBlueTACoupe at the top when you go to my imgur link it will take you to all my stuff on there. More interesting stuff to see.

       Roy

[JohnSlack]

The bud moore oil pan is quite  the challenge to duplicate .

It sure is.

[gt350shelb]

The bud moore oil pan is quite  the challenge to duplicate .

It sure is.

built 3 at one time  with an original to copy

[JohnSlack]

The bud moore oil pan is quite  the challenge to duplicate .

It sure is.

built 3 at one time  with an original to copy

Very nice, I have two original pans. One really nice oil pan, another damaged pan. However I also have the patterns that Rich Rodeck made of all the gating.


John

[pbf777]

The bud moore oil pan is quite  the challenge to duplicate .

I also have the patterns that Rich Rodeck made of all the gating.

     Always make ones' own observation as to the potential effectiveness of any "trick" oil pan, this to ones' own application; as it is not so uncommon to have pans designed for specific car and track instances and may not prove "ideal" elsewhere.   

    Scott.

[gt350shelb]

I think in most cases any of these pans is overkill in the vintage racing  groups/ but in being  period correct  must look the part ( what is inside  does not matter ) The ones i duplicated were correct inside and out the  bear was making the  tubing bends to match the originals .

[JohnSlack]

I think in most cases any of these pans is overkill in the vintage racing  groups/ but in being  period correct  must look the part ( what is inside  does not matter ) The ones i duplicated were correct inside and out the  bear was making the  tubing bends to match the originals .

The De-Aireator piece to me is a very complex part.


John

[pbf777]

 

The De-Aireator piece to me is a very complex part.

     Basically similar to an oil pickup, just mounted above the oil level in the main sump, this in order to breakup the oil stream being dumped, this in order to more efficiently release the interned air volume including breaking up formed bubbling, and also to reduce the expulsion velocity and force so as not to induce additional aeration and agitation of that which is already captured in the sump, in which this volume is intended to supplement.   

     Scott.

[JohnSlack]

The bud moore oil pan is quite  the challenge to duplicate .

I also have the patterns that Rich Rodeck made of all the gating.

     Always make ones' own observation as to the potential effectiveness of any "trick" oil pan, this to ones' own application; as it is not so uncommon to have pans designed for specific car and track instances and may not prove "ideal" elsewhere.   

    Scott.

Scott,
I didn't have a 1969 Team car to restore. So I searched for all the parts to build a correct 1969 T/A motor. Over the years with parts sourced from so many different people I couldn't name them all. I have all of the parts (Except for Bud Moore valve covers.) To build a complete engine. So having the correct oiling system was/is a requirement. No I'm not running the ultra-heavy T/A rods and a center counter weighted crankshaft, (Randy Gillis talked me out of that over a dozen years ago.) As gt350shelb said, "you can't see them anyway", so why carry that downside.


John

[pbf777]

I No I'm not running the ultra-heavy T/A rods and a center counter weighted crankshaft, (Randy Gillis talked me out of that over a dozen years ago.) As gt350shelb said, "you can't see them anyway", so why carry that downside.

     Ahhh shucks!

     But even so, they're just so dog-gone-cool!     Besides, aren't those things just part of the big picture, whether you can see 'um or not,.............. right?   

     And, I just believe this nonsense to the point that I have several sets of 'em, just in case 'I' might need 'em!   

     Scott.