KR Horn...another NewB question

[Bob Gaines]

The kit you want is for the later, smaller diameter horns. The original rivets have a waffle like pattern on the manufactured head. You can buy a waffle pattern rivet set to simulate that if you want.

Kits: https://www.zip-corvette.com/64-75-horn-repair-refinish-kit.html

Do they sell the kits from what they show in their instructions with the vibrating discs and hammers? The link they have doesn't exist.

When I click on the link it shows in stock, ships tomorrow.

https://www.zip-corvette.com/64-75-horn-repair-refinish-kit.html

Maybe Bob is getting worse horns than I am because all of the ones I have taken apart the kit works perfectly to fix the horn.

It shows 4 gaskets and rivets. In the PDF article they show the kit and a link to it including the vibrating discs  and hammers. That link doesn't exist when you click on it. The pic below the kit link is shown in blue at the top and the complete kit with discs shown.

That's the kit I always use. It has fixed every horn I ever took apart. I have not needed anything else ever.

so your vibration discs and hammers were fine and a cleaning fixed them? The kit shown is for assembly of the 2 parts of the horn and not any internal parts. I got a LOT of nice 67-70 Horns and when I get the time(retirement) I'll try all the tricks to get them working before taking any of them apart. Thanks for your reply Royce.

I have only needed to try and internally restore horns that do not work . I can find a better use of my time then taking apart already working horns. If you can get them working prior to disassembly like you say then it would logically be counterproductive to take them further apart . It is no small job to drill out the rivets, clean the internals and re rivet them back together in a way that they look undisturbed. I would only disassemble them if all else fails. I guess if you don't have anything else to do then a extra waste of your time makes no difference.

[shelbymann1970]

Bob, I would only take apart horns I could not get to work. I have had success before getting horns to work and usually working the screw and always making sure I have a metal to metal ground-just like the starter solenoid(do ask me why) and your tip on dielectric grease is great. I also use it on electrical plug bullets. I got at least a dozen real nice horns I need to work on someday.

[shelbydoug]

Yes, getting them apart is a bear. The rivets, although not hardened, are difficult to center punch to get the drill bit started.

The shape of the exterior castings does not lend itself well to being held firmly in a vice.

Mine are original to two cars and none work. On disassembling them I can see why.

Not all would agree with my priorities or me in general, so that is to be as expected.

Presuming that I am successful in getting them to work, my concern is how often will they need to be disassembled. The issues I see are definitely weather and environment related.

I've found that allen socket button head screws are often mistaken for rivets once installed. You can get them in black stainless steel relatively inexpensively.

To me that solution is fine since it is going to make knowledgeable individuals casually glancing at least momentarily be confused. That's fine for my purposes.

I'm not the type that needs original air in the tires.

At this point I would venture to say that there are not many original date coded horns that still work.

Sometimes small victories are important?


I haven't measured the thickness of the paper gaskets yet but they are VERY thin. Looks like somewhere around 5 thousands or so. The need for them as spacers is noted.

[Royce Peterson]

[/quote Bob Gaines]
I have only needed to try and internally restore horns that do not work . I can find a better use of my time then taking apart already working horns. If you can get them working prior to disassembly like you say then it would logically be counterproductive to take them further apart . It is no small job to drill out the rivets, clean the internals and re rivet them back together in a way that they look undisturbed. I would only disassemble them if all else fails. I guess if you don't have anything else to do then a extra waste of your time makes no difference.
[/quote]

I do try the adjustment screw first. That will fix maybe 1 in 10 horns. The majority need to be taken apart and cleaned. They were often found 25 years ago. Not any more. I restore cars for other folks so when I disassemble anything I am being compensated for my work. I don't waste any time and if good original horns were to be had I would have them. Reproductions are fine for some folks, not good enough for others.

I have a lot of experience drilling out and installing rivets from my years at the aircraft mines. It's no big deal to do if you have the proper tools and experience. Rivets can be daunting to the uninitiated.

[Steve Meltzer]

Well, all of the intense discussion about speakers thankfully won't apply to me. Both horns work when 12 V are applied and furthermore applying 12 V to the incoming blue wire makes the other horn sound. So I would think that the problem is indeed at the contact point in the steering wheel. Little to suggest it's the horns or the wires leading to them. Thanks again and please correct me if I've misinterpreted the information. Steve.

[shelbydoug]

You lucked out. I have four of my horns appart thanks to interest generated in this post.

I have no continuity through the points so I am presuming that means that the coils are shot?

Oh well. I tried. It's pretty obvious that they were never intended to be rebuildable with everything riveted together? Just cheap throw away's that probably cost Ford a couple of bucks each new?

[Royce Peterson]

The ones I have repaired all started life having no continuity. It was because of dirty points every time. I have yet to find one with a bad coil.

Steve you can connect a voltmeter to the horn wire and measure to see if you are getting 12 volts or not. I did once have a reproduction steering wheel that was assembled with screws that were too long. That in turn caused the horn to be permanently shorted to ground. The circuit breaker inside the headlamp switch burned out before I isolated the problem. So I got to replace the hardware in the steering wheel and replace the headlamp switch to fix the horn.   

[Bob Gaines]

[/quote Bob Gaines]
I have only needed to try and internally restore horns that do not work . I can find a better use of my time then taking apart already working horns. If you can get them working prior to disassembly like you say then it would logically be counterproductive to take them further apart . It is no small job to drill out the rivets, clean the internals and re rivet them back together in a way that they look undisturbed. I would only disassemble them if all else fails. I guess if you don't have anything else to do then a extra waste of your time makes no difference.

I do try the adjustment screw first. That will fix maybe 1 in 10 horns. The majority need to be taken apart and cleaned. They were often found 25 years ago. Not any more. I restore cars for other folks so when I disassemble anything I am being compensated for my work. I don't waste any time and if good original horns were to be had I would have them. Reproductions are fine for some folks, not good enough for others.

I have a lot of experience drilling out and installing rivets from my years at the aircraft mines. It's no big deal to do if you have the proper tools and experience. Rivets can be daunting to the uninitiated.
[/quote]Royce my comments were meant to be generalized and not specifically towards you so please don't take it that way. If you have had success I am happy for you. There is always going to be that guy who has different experiences.

[shelbydoug]

The ones I have repaired all started life having no continuity. It was because of dirty points every time. I have yet to find one with a bad coil.

Steve you can connect a voltmeter to the horn wire and measure to see if you are getting 12 volts or not. I did once have a reproduction steering wheel that was assembled with screws that were too long. That in turn caused the horn to be permanently shorted to ground. The circuit breaker inside the headlamp switch burned out before I isolated the problem. So I got to replace the hardware in the steering wheel and replace the headlamp switch to fix the horn.

I cleaned all four sets of points with an emery board. There is no continuity through the points themselves. That I just do not understand.

I got all of the rivets out Bob but once I got the knack it still takes 30-40 minutes a horn to get them out.

while we are on the subject, were these horns originally painted all black or was it silver cad on the steel and just the snail gets painted?

[KR Convertible]

I did a bunch of my horns a few years back.  I carefully ground the waffled part of the rivet off and drove the rivet out.  Cleaned everything up and coated with rust inhibitor, similar to Boeshield.  I made my own gaskets from the heaviest brown paper handle bag I could find.  I put them together with nuts and bolts to test.  Alignment of the holes is critical to good tone.

After I was happy with the function, I decided to make the look right.  I put the original rivets in the lathe and cut the shoulder back a little, about .050", if I remember correctly.  I then took a punch and ground the waffle pattern into the face and replaced the nuts and bolts one at a time using a clamp next to the rivet I was working on.

[Bob Gaines]

The ones I have repaired all started life having no continuity. It was because of dirty points every time. I have yet to find one with a bad coil.

Steve you can connect a voltmeter to the horn wire and measure to see if you are getting 12 volts or not. I did once have a reproduction steering wheel that was assembled with screws that were too long. That in turn caused the horn to be permanently shorted to ground. The circuit breaker inside the headlamp switch burned out before I isolated the problem. So I got to replace the hardware in the steering wheel and replace the headlamp switch to fix the horn.

I cleaned all four sets of points with an emery board. There is no continuity through the points themselves. That I just do not understand.

I got all of the rivets out Bob but once I got the knack it still takes 30-40 minutes a horn to get them out.

while we are on the subject, were these horns originally painted all black or was it silver cad on the steel and just the snail gets painted?

Everything black except power terminal . The terminal had a mask on it when painted so paint typically stop a little up from the base of the tab. That paint point can very.

[shelbydoug]

The ones I have repaired all started life having no continuity. It was because of dirty points every time. I have yet to find one with a bad coil.

Steve you can connect a voltmeter to the horn wire and measure to see if you are getting 12 volts or not. I did once have a reproduction steering wheel that was assembled with screws that were too long. That in turn caused the horn to be permanently shorted to ground. The circuit breaker inside the headlamp switch burned out before I isolated the problem. So I got to replace the hardware in the steering wheel and replace the headlamp switch to fix the horn.

I cleaned all four sets of points with an emery board. There is no continuity through the points themselves. That I just do not understand.

I got all of the rivets out Bob but once I got the knack it still takes 30-40 minutes a horn to get them out.

while we are on the subject, were these horns originally painted all black or was it silver cad on the steel and just the snail gets painted?

Everything black except power terminal . The terminal had a mask on it when painted so paint typically stop a little up from the base of the tab. That paint point can very.

Thanks Bob. That helps.

[Steve Meltzer]

OK, I got out there, and the horn only works when pushed at the 3 o'clock position of the rim. It also seems to me that the hor onlyn blows consistently if you let it rest about a minute between attempts. This is with the ignition off. If you stop honking the horn and then try again immediately in 15 seconds or 410 it will not work but if you wait about a minute the full force of the horn resumes. Is there some reason or someway that it stores electricity and than hesitates to regenerate? It does not appear to be easy to pry off the centerpiece that goes from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock and I was afraid I was going to break it so I did not get in any deeper than what I've just said. Thanks, Steve.

[Bob Gaines]

OK, I got out there, and the horn only works when pushed at the 3 o'clock position of the rim. It also seems to me that the hor onlyn blows consistently if you let it rest about a minute between attempts. This is with the ignition off. If you stop honking the horn and then try again immediately in 15 seconds or 410 it will not work but if you wait about a minute the full force of the horn resumes. Is there some reason or someway that it stores electricity and than hesitates to regenerate? It does not appear to be easy to pry off the centerpiece that goes from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock and I was afraid I was going to break it so I did not get in any deeper than what I've just said. Thanks, Steve.

The center pad is held on by 2 screws from the backside of the steering wheel assembly.

[Lincoln tech]

OK, I got out there, and the horn only works when pushed at the 3 o'clock position of the rim. It also seems to me that the hor onlyn blows consistently if you let it rest about a minute between attempts. This is with the ignition off. If you stop honking the horn and then try again immediately in 15 seconds or 410 it will not work but if you wait about a minute the full force of the horn resumes. Is there some reason or someway that it stores electricity and than hesitates to regenerate? It does not appear to be easy to pry off the centerpiece that goes from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock and I was afraid I was going to break it so I did not get in any deeper than what I've just said. Thanks, Steve.

Post #3 on this topic by me would have taken you there faster , time to remove the steering wheel and check the slip rings on the wheel along with contacts attached to turn signal switch.