Original 64 Cobra Alternator?

[livetoride60]

Has anyone seen this alternator or have any info on it?  Picked it up a while back and found out something similar was used on Cobras at some point.  The back half looks the same anyway.

It is the same as this alternator on eBay listed as being for a Cobra, although I don't trust that.

I have been told it has a 64 style drive end case, I assume indicated by the dual gussets on the screw bosses. 

Thanks
Rich

[Bob Gaines]

Has anyone seen this alternator or have any info on it?  Picked it up a while back and found out something similar was used on Cobras at some point.  The back half looks the same anyway.

It is the same as this alternator on eBay listed as being for a Cobra, although I don't trust that.

I have been told it has a 64 style drive end case, I assume indicated by the dual gussets on the screw bosses. 

Thanks
Rich

Also the one piece push on pulley /fan assembly is different compared to genuine. Your top picture is of the regular production pre 65 alternator and not the Cobra HIPO version. Same alternator case but different push on one piece pulley/fan assembly  They repro the previously hard to find back wiring harness plugs now but the one piece hipo fan/pulley is rare and expensive.  600.00+ for a genuine pulley fan assembly is not out of the question. Many MKI and MKII Cobra owners have switched out the harness plug for later harness wires to the alternator so a later 60's alternator could be used. Some people have tried to accomplish something that looks similar without the investment by using the front and back case but the guts from a later 60's alternator that will take a nut and lock washer. That way they can utilize a conventional hipo fan and pulley both of which are reproed. Many rebuilders will not work on those older model alternators too.

[Bob Gaines]

 The 1500.00 auction alternator is not the hipo version ether . It is smaller diameter.

[livetoride60]

Ok.  Thanks Bob.

I have the alternator at a local old school shop for rebuild.  These guys have been doing it for a long time, but are going out of business this month, so took a bunch in for them to do.

I have no use for it other than resale.  Think it would be worth anything to this community, and would it be worth more rebuilt or left alone?

They also said the push on pulley can be a problem to get to stay once removed.  But sounds like that pulley is incorrect anyway.

[Bob Gaines]

Ok.  Thanks Bob.

I have the alternator at a local old school shop for rebuild.  These guys have been doing it for a long time, but are going out of business this month, so took a bunch in for them to do.

I have no use for it other than resale.  Think it would be worth anything to this community, and would it be worth more rebuilt or left alone?

They also said the push on pulley can be a problem to get to stay once removed.  But sounds like that pulley is incorrect anyway.

The pulley has to be pressed on during and as part of the rebuild. It is only valuable to someone if it has a correct pulley . Given that if it is rebuilt with a incorrect pulley to change to a Hipo one piece pulley the pulley it has to be pressed out from the back side which makes so it has to be rebuilt again . Logically it doesn't make sense to rebuild it unless it has a pulley on it that is the one Cobra owners want which in this case is the correct one piece hipo pulley. just my thoughts on the subject.

[Dan Case]

1963. There were two alternator assemblies I know of for Mercury and Ford sedans with some of the 427 c.i.d. engine option packages. Based on some information posted on some 427 Galaxie groups sites, the 40 amp model was used for about the first half of the model year to be followed by a 42 amp model. 1963 model year cores with original drive end cases are rare. The screw bosses on the drive end cases had a cracking problem. During the 1964 model year, the revised for 1964 drive end case was the service replacement. The next replacement drive end case came along and is noticeably different than the 1963 and 1964 parts. I see quite a few alternator cores for sale with the later 1965 style service replacement drive end case.


1964. The only external part special for the 1964 Mercury-Ford 427 powered option packages applicable and 1964-65 Cobra application was the fan and large diameter sheave assembly. 1964 model year alternator cores are not rare but are very rarely found in the general used parts market with the high rpm large diameter sheave.  1964-65 Cobras used the 1964 issues of 40 amp model alternator assembly.  CSX2201-CSX2589 street cars used different lock nuts for securing the wire loom plug than other vehicles.


When you get into fine details I have come across or seen pictures of five (5) different early 1960s large diameter sheaves between "SK" prefix prototypes to the one most used in new 1964-65 Cobras.


Generally speaking, the desirability of any version, single groove or double groove, or in any sheave diameter of "1964" sheave section lies in exactly which version it is and what its condition is.  The range in values is rather large. The fan and sheave assemblies with small diameter double groove sheaves are pretty common. More below.


Buyer Beware: Not all large diameter single groove sheave parts around were made in the 1960s.



1)   The original supplier of record of the large fan and sheave assemblies was Dearborn Steel Tubing Company (DST). That does not mean they were all the same as different subcontracting job shops did the machine work in different time periods.  More than one stamp set was used to add engineering numbers to assemblies at different times. DST provided new made batches of replacements at least into the 1980s as they would have them for sale at SAAC conventions. I looked at the then modern offerings at a few conventions but never purchased one because they were not 100% exactly like what was in our car.   I saw a couple of circa 1980s DST replacements still new and unused this past summer when we visited a restoration shop.



2)   I have been told that several people have made their own look-a-like large fan and sheave assemblies for the replicar market but I have not seen one in person.



Sheave & Fan Assembly Removal & Installation: I recommend obtaining the Ford training and service manuals for the 1963-64 alternators before starting. Copies are listed on eBay® occasionally. Some information is in various 1963-64 Ford vehicle service manuals.


Removal. Ford Motor Company had a special puller available to remove pressed on power steering pump sheaves and 1963-64 alternator fan and sheave assemblies. Several aftermarket tool companies offered their own versions of pullers. The central spool the Ford puller engages with is very easy to damage and I see a lot of damaged ones in Cobras. I never found a Ford tool and none of the aftermarket tools I purchased were all that friendly to the very rare part. I designed my own that will remove a fan and sheave assembly without even scratching the paint. Removing alternator fan and sheave assemblies has been super easy for me.


Installation. The brush end case assembly must be removed to get started and that is a great time to make sure the grease in the rear bearing is still in good condition and if not, deal with it. Service replacement bearings are readily available but do not have the same exposed markings as the bearing assemblies installed during original manufacture. Ford manuals cover this brush end case removal. Verify the little spacer ring that slips over the drive end of the rotor shaft was not lost during service work before installing the fan and sheave assembly. The spacer ring goes between the rotor body and the fan and sheave assembly.  (If lost, an obsolete parts dealer may have some as Ford sold the spacers as a service part.) The fan and sheave assembly must be pressed on against the brush end of the rotor assembly shaft resting on the press bed. The press work must be done straight to prevent damaging the bore of the fan and sheave assembly. Reinstall the brush end case.



How about the drive end bearing? The drive end bearing is what I have had to replace before. To get the bearing and rotor out of the drive end case the fan and sheave assembly must be removed first. The bearing retainer plate fasteners must be removed. The bearing can be very stubborn resisting disassembly from the drive end case. A friend told me to lay some small chips of natural bee's wax around the bearing in the case and shaft, heat the case and bearing up to 250ׄ°F, and then separate the bearing from the drive end case. That method worked easily whereas nothing else had over many attempts. Replacement bearings are readily available, a common Ford item for many years.

[Dan Case]

Unrestored alternator from a CSX2201-CSX2589 Cobra. It is not a great picture, but is what I have handy. This unit works well and is our back up spare, which has come in handy.