Early Small Later Cobra Intake on Facebook Marketplace

[BGlover67]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/879361860607126/?referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Adc7b4225-196a-48fa-ba48-34e33b815e71

Real deal early 1965 small letter Cobra gt350 Shelby intake manifold S1MS9424A

Early real deal 1964-65 Cobra 289 Hi-Po small letter aluminum high rise intake manifold.  S1MS 9424A. No porting or milling. No water port corrosion. No welded ears. It does have the common hair line crack ( very small ) in exhaust crossover. I do not want to have it fixed everyone has there own way of doing this. Honest should not even matter up to you but had to mention it. If you have a problem with the asking price just move on. Very rare intake now days. You may never see another in any cond.

$3,000

[pbf777]

     Might be the "real deal", but I'm just not so sure it's a "real deal"!   

     Scott.

[shelbydoug]

I think it is. Look at the size of the temperature sender fitting. The repros need a reducer fitting for some reason.

The color of that sender insulator should be black and not red as far as I understand it though so I'd think that was changed out.

The red ones are going to read too high and you will think that you are overheating?

The black ones are the only ones that are accurate.

[Bob Gaines]

I think it is. Look at the size of the temperature sender fitting. The repros need a reducer fitting for some reason.

The color of that sender insulator should be black and not red as far as I understand it though so I'd think that was changed out.

The red ones are going to read too high and you will think that you are overheating?

The black ones are the only ones that are accurate.

I am not aware of there ever being a small letter S1MS Cobra intake being reproduced, The small temperature sender is indicative of the early small letter Cobra intake.The later S2MS intake that was reproduced by Blue Thunder had a defect in that the heater hose fitting hole was too big and you had to have a adapter bushing to get the correct heater hose fitting to work.

[SFM5S159]

Would an early Cobra intake have the port drilled in the rear of the intake?   My understanding they did not...?

[Bob Gaines]

Would an early Cobra intake have the port drilled in the rear of the intake?   My understanding they did not...?

When we say Cobra intake on this forum we are typically talking about one of the many variations of Cobra marked intakes . There are early and later versions of Cobra intakes so it can be confusing. In those cases they are typically drilled for PVC. I suspect your usage refers to a intake that would have been used on a MK I or MK II Cobra which in that case it typically would not be drilled.

[SFM5S159]

I asked because the language included 1964, not just 1965.   
Asking so I have a good understanding of the nuances of these intakes.

Thanks

Mike

[Bob Gaines]

I asked because the language included 1964, not just 1965.   
Asking so I have a good understanding of the nuances of these intakes.

Thanks

Mike

Not a problem . Hopefully the info will help understanding those nuances.

[csxsfm]

Is there a Hi-Rise version of the Cobra manifold without the pvc port?

[Bob Gaines]

Is there a Hi-Rise version of the Cobra manifold without the pvc port?

The S1,S2 and S7 Cobra intakes were all called high rise. I have never heard of a factory Cobra intake taller. The MKI , MKII Cobra marked highrise intake did not have a port to be drilled. Some of the competition Cobra marked intakes that did have a pcv port were left undrilled.

[Dan Case]

Is there a Hi-Rise version of the Cobra manifold without the pvc port?

Yes. It was apparently not intended for street use because it had no provision of any kind for a PCV system fitting. It also had the fly cut reliefs between banks on the carburetor mounting flange as Shelby American did for the racing GT350 intakes later. All new Cobras with stock HP289 engines used PCV systems, even with optional 4V and 2-4V induction systems.

This version has very thin as cast port walls. They are fragile. I know I have located six of them and only two were not cracked at one of the carburetor fixing stud bosses, one still never installed and one still right where a dealer installed it in 1965.







The new unused one was ordered post delivery by a late 1964 Cobra buyer and never installed. We purchased the intake directly from that original owner.


The dealer installed one was ordered and installed in a 1965 Cobra during 1965. Without any provision for a PCV fitting the dealer installed a road draft tube for crankcase ventilation. As of early 2020 when I was examining it, it was still installed right where it was bolted down in 1965.

[csxsfm]

Interesting.  I bought one as soon as they became available over-the-counter and it had the pvc port.  Still going strong.

[SFM5S159]

Is there a Hi-Rise version of the Cobra manifold without the pvc port?

Yes. It was apparently not intended for street use because it had no provision of any kind for a PCV system fitting. It also had the fly cut reliefs between banks on the carburetor mounting flange as Shelby American did for the racing GT350 intakes later. All new Cobras with stock HP289 engines used PCV systems, even with optional 4V and 2-4V induction systems.

This version has very thin as cast port walls. They are fragile. I know I have located six of them and only two were not cracked at one of the carburetor fixing stud bosses, one still never installed and one still right where a dealer installed it in 1965.







The new unused one was ordered post delivery by a late 1964 Cobra buyer and never installed. We purchased the intake directly from that original owner.


The dealer installed one was ordered and installed in a 1965 Cobra during 1965. Without any provision for a PCV fitting the dealer installed a road draft tube for crankcase ventilation. As of early 2020 when I was examining it, it was still installed right where it was bolted down in 1965.

Dan, are you saying a 289 Cobra should have an intake with the PCV port?   

I believe I have one of the intakes you pictured above.  I'll send pics of it.

Thanks,

Mike C

[Dan Case]

Dan, are you saying a 289 Cobra should have an intake with the PCV port?   
Thanks,

Mike C

Yes. Ordinary street Cobras with High Performance 289 engines used positive crankcase ventilation systems. Ford manufactured the engines in Cleveland Ohio with PCV systems. (260 engines in Cobras used road draft tube crankcase ventilation.)


If somebody ordered a C4SA-9421 intake factory installed (C4SA9421 on part, S1CS-9421 in 1965 service parts list) and the Holley® R-2599 carburetor (Ford C3AE-9510-A) to go with it for use with a 1963½ engine, the Ford rear of intake manifold PCV equipment was moved to the aluminum intake. This intake model was available at factory installed until at least about September 1964 and maybe longer. CSX2486 was ordered with a low rise COBRA intake in September 1964 but the car was delivered with a stock iron intake so the $51.50 charged (which was the catalog price for a C4SA-9421 intake) was refunded along with a letter of apology.  There was no mention of an optional carburetor being ordered. That is the last mention I have come across of a new Cobra order for a factory installed "low rise" COBRA intake manifold.


1964-65 engines had PCV systems originating from a rocker arm covers but still had a hose connection behind their carburetors in the aluminum spacer installed between stock iron 4V intakes and carburetors.


When the 2-4V option was ordered factory installed mid-September 1963 onward, a custom PCV system for new Cobra was installed.






The C4SA-9421 intake manifold is a descendant of a prototype 1962 260 4V iron manifold by Ford Motor Company. Holman-Moody made a copy version for 260 engines in 1962 racing technology in aluminum with and without their logo cast into them. The C4SA-9421 COBRA and TIGER lettered versions were produced and Shelby American offered them for sale. It is a poor choice for a 289 c.i.d. engine with runner volumes intended for a 1962 style 260 c.i.d. engine.


The intake I show in Reply #10 is more mystery than we would wish as I have never found a Ford Motor Company or Shelby American reference that positively identifies it beyond doubt. I have studied them on and off for decades now. I had one that had been used in a Cobra and had the typical crack at a carburetor mounting stud. The casting was also more porous than I liked. The port runners were fairly small and their walls were cast thin.  The GT350 street and race versions of intake manifolds were in use before 1964 ended. GT350 street cars used PCV systems of course. These no PCV ones that have been cracked and or cracked and repaired not so well have been very hard to sell. I nearly gave the one I had away. Well repaired ones have also been slow movers because so far we have no proof any new Cobra left Shelby American with one factory installed and the lack of PCV port makes an issue for near stock cars still using a PCV system. (There were adapter Ford spacers back then with hose connection for a PCV system but that is another subject.)


CSX2497, CSX2553, and CSX2555 all got 1965 MUSTANG GT350 high rise intakes and carburetors AFTER 1965 MUSTANG GT350 production started. (I had the carburetor from CSX2555 for years.) One of the cut back door race roadsters, CSX2513, was retrofitted with a 4V induction system using one of the 1964 427 Ford carburetors for a while circa December 1964. Which intake casting they all got is a mystery. Offenhauser (ready to use), Buddy Barksdale (unmachined castings racers could finish as they wished), and Ford engineering (machined by DST) versions were all supplied through Shelby American as versions of 1965 COBRA high rise intake manifolds by April-May1965.

[SFM5S159]

Very helpful information, thanks.

I've seen the Cobra 4-2v intake without the two raised cast bosses for linkage.  Is this typical ?  Are there different versions?