63 Cobra 289 HIPO

[rolly11]

OK here is the question. I bought a 289 HIPO back in the early 80's that was stated to be out of a 63 Cobra, the motor was complete with Webbers and HIPO heads so I bought it. I was not as familiar with the differences on the HIPO and the standard 289 at that time. I took the guys word for it. Over the years I sold the Webbers and the HIPO heads but kept the short block. Now here is the question. The block has the HIPO crank,rods and pistons but the main caps are not the big ones. The block is a April 63 build date and a number stamped on the block on the left bank tab is 3D 196. Did the early HIPO blocks have the bigger main caps? Is this just a standard 289 block with HIPO parts inside?  Thanks

I am still working on 2380 and slowly gathering parts,any suggestions on the correct front suspension parts? 

[98SVT - was 06GT]

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1712-all-you-need-to-know-about-the-mustang-hi-po-289-part-1/

[Dan Case]

OK here is the question. I bought a 289 HIPO back in the early 80's that was stated to be out of a 63 Cobra, the motor was complete with Webbers and HIPO heads so I bought it. I was not as familiar with the differences on the HIPO and the standard 289 at that time. I took the guys word for it. Over the years I sold the Webbers and the HIPO heads but kept the short block. Now here is the question. The block has the HIPO crank,rods and pistons but the main caps are not the big ones. The block is a April 63 build date and a number stamped on the block on the left bank tab is 3D 196. Did the early HIPO blocks have the bigger main caps? Is this just a standard 289 block with HIPO parts inside?  Thanks

All known "early" 289 High Performance engines made between the prototypes in 1962 and the last of the 1963½ engines in June 1963, about 1,550 engines total, had cylinder block assemblies with heavy duty main bearing caps. You might even find a prototype engine (Experimental High Performance 289 or XHP-289) with some four bolt main bearing caps as parts in its cylinder block assembly.

The number "3D 196" does not seem to be a serial number stamped in the Ford Cleveland Ohio engine plant. 3D19 is in the form of an engine assembly date, is the last letter a 6 or G?  When you say left bank tab do you mean the tooling boss on the cylinder block in the left rear position where Ford stamped 1963½-1964 HP289 engine serial numbers or the small extension on the left front of the engine block where engine assembly dates were stamped. If that is on the left rear tooling boss, it was most likely added post production by somebody.

The key dates people look for on 1963½-1964 cylinder blocks are:
-   Casting date, the day raw block casting produced (cast in near starter location)
-   Cylinder block assembly date, the day the cylinder block assembly was manufactured (hand stamped oil pan rail)
-   Engine assembly date, the most important date, the day the engine was manufactured (hand stamped front of left cylinder bank) What versions of what components went into an engine depended on the date of manufacture as Ford was regularly making revisions to old parts and introducing new ones.


There was nothing special about the cylinder block castings used as the beginnings of HP289 engines 1962-67.  Blocks to start HP289 engine builds were selected through a process of inspection for flaws. Flaws that were acceptable for standard engine were not wanted for HP289 engines. Excessive core shifts, cracks, tiny voids, and porosity that could be dealt with by the engine plant for standard engines were not allowed for HP289 engines. The C4OE-6010-D sheet Bob Mannel published says "USE DYE PENETRANT INSPECTION METHOD - CRACKS OR INDICATIONS NOT ALLOWED".


As required, the cylinder block castings chosen for HP289 applications had heavy duty main bearing caps added during machine work to become HP289 cylinder block assemblies. The new subassembly received a set of paint color daubs for visual identification and the 1963½-64 engines I know well received a hand painted "HP" on the back face of the block. As the engine continued through the assembly process a serial number was added. The same serial number was hand painted on the rear of the block once or twice, twice being very common, and hand stamped on the left rear tooling boss.  Ford ended the practice of assigning serial numbers to HP289 engines as regular production for the 1964 model year ended in mid-July 1964. Ford started production of six bolt bell housing HP289 engines days later July 1964 without any special serial numbers.

[S7MS427]

The key dates people look for on 1963½-1964 cylinder blocks are:
-   Casting date, the day raw block casting produced (cast in near starter location)
-   Cylinder block assembly date, the day the cylinder block assembly was manufactured (hand stamped oil pan rail)
-   Engine assembly date, the most important date, the day the engine was manufactured (hand stamped front of left cylinder bank) What versions of what components went into an engine depended on the date of manufacture as Ford was regularly making revisions to old parts and introducing new ones.

Dan, when you say engine assembly date, what is included in that assembly? Would that be the block, main caps, and main cap bolts or would that be the short block? Thanks.

[Dan Case]

Dan, when you say engine assembly date, what is included in that assembly? Would that be the block, main caps, and main cap bolts or would that be the short block? Thanks.

Ford shipped complete High Performance 289 engines less:
Starter assembly and fasteners (mounting or power cable fastening) Also note that a) all chassis required a Ford starter relay and at least two versions were used at different times, and b) any cars with Ford charging system before CSX2201 also required (CSX2070-CSX2200 specifically by factory documentation) the addition of an ignition resister and the swap in of a Ford voltage regulator.

Fuel pump and fuel filter assembly, gasket, and fasteners.

Metal and or rubber fuel line sections and clamps.

Engine cooling fan blade.

Air cleaner fixing stud.

Air cleaner fixing nut. (Cobras received a wing nut not used in most Ford vehicle assembly plants.)

Air cleaner assembly.

Air cleaner to carburetor gasket.

Any kind of fitting in the intake manifold vacuum port behind the carburetor. (The port was masked while the engine was being painted.)

Generator (The main generator mounting brackets were installed by Ford for 1963½-1964 engines). (Side bar. Shelby American converted CSX2201 and later cars with 1964 engines to a Cobra suitable alternator mounting system.)

Generator.

Crankshaft fan belt sheave and fasteners.

Water pump fan belt sheave and fasteners.

Fan belt.

Clutch release bearing and collar assembly.

Motor mount parts and fasteners.

Road draft tubes or hardware for 1963½ engines.

Drivetrain bonding (a.k.a. ground) cable. All cars CSX2160 and later received bonding cables. CSX2201-CSX2589 received modified production Ford cables.

Factory pictures indicate that these parts were installed as shipped from Ohio.

Carburetor (covered with clear plastic, not on engine during painting but the spacer was), main mounting bracket for a generator, fuel line stabilization bracket at water pump after the circa late September 1963 introduction but I do not know if the top clamp and screw were installed yet, water pump (heater hose and radiator hose connection locations plus the flange for the sheave were masked during engine painting), unpainted cylinder block water jack drain plugs, pressed paper painting mask for fuel pump mounting flange, full size engine oil filter (black assembly line version), engine oil dip stick (dip stick was not installed during engine painting so their exposed top ends and finger loop were not painted), coolant temperature sensor (not proven yet), ignition coil and bracket system with fasteners (not on the engine during painting), high tension lead between coil and ignition distributor, the thermostat housing was on the engine during painting and the hose connection was masked, thermostat by-pass hose and clamps (painted when engine was painted), clutch disc, clutch pressure plate, bell housing assembly (not painted), clutch lever, clutch lever dust boot, ignition distributor assembly with fixing clamp and screw (not on engine during painting), secondary ignition wires, secondary ignition wire separator clips, spark plugs (three rib insulators), 1964 model engines had complete PCV system installed (not on engine during painting), oil fill cap (painted and decal applied as applicable by time frame, engine version, and supplier), Ford cast iron exhaust manifolds (on the engines during painting so expect some unpainted areas behind them), the hot air pipe and insulation for choke pull off system was installed for engines with automatic choke carburetors from the beginning of HP289 engines until about the second week of May 1964 (not on engine during painting) and something to block off the oil pressure sensor port in the cylinder block (The only picture available showing the area clearly is of an engine being prepared for a Cobra and there is a temporary bare metal square head pipe plug in the port.)

[Dan Case]

Dan, when you say engine assembly date, what is included in that assembly? Would that be the block, main caps, and main cap bolts or would that be the short block? Thanks.

PS Many do not know that Ford filled the engine with oil and did an oil pressure test before crating them for shipment. Each engine got its own stackable wooden crate 1963-64. At least engines delivered to Shelby American were individually crated.


The engine assembly date is the important one for somebody evaluating an unrestored engine or car or going to a best of the best restoration. All the dated engine parts installed in Cleveland had to be dated before the engine assembly date naturally. Things like casting and assembly dates of components gets pretty complicated. A raw block casting might have ended up in a new engine in less than a week. A cylinder head casting might be weeks to months old before getting into an engine. A carburetor might be two weeks to several months old when it was installed in Cleveland. So on and so forth. The best I can recommend is a set of ranges based on what I have recorded over many years since 1983.


Where people get lost is starters, fuel pumps, and fan belts, very much so for Cobras because of low volume and the inconvenience that Shelby American did not practice first in first out inventory control.


Shelby American had to have batches of parts on hand to complete cars, here specifically starters, fuel pumps, and fan belts. Once any dated part was in stock, it could have been used to complete any car in the series after that.  Normally though, it seems they eventually ran out of old stock and got the latest greatest through Ford. That means I don't expect a 1963 design starter in a Cobra completed late in 1964 or at any time in 1965.

Example:  Shelby American was installing 1963 production design starters in new Cobras long after Ford assembly plants had converted to 1964 production design starters.


"Engines" in detail installed in new Cobras is a very lengthy complicated subject. I have not added all the main and subtopic files but  I have more than 450 pages of information on them to cover all the Cobra owners and shops I have assisted.

[Dan Case]

Cobra wise 1963-65. Engine versions. I will not go into much fine detail about all the model years and versions of engines here but there was not "a" High Performance 289 engine made in Cleveland Ohio but a family of them. I will use fractional suffixes to help illustrate time frames:

• 1963 Experimental High Performance 289 engines produced inside the start of the 1963 model year in late summer 1962. Ford was performing in vehicle testing during September and October 1962. At this time there is some factory documentation that indicated that one of these was further modified and installed in a factory race Cobra during 1963. Currently thought to be on the order of a dozen engines or so total in this group but that is a guess.

• 1963½ Type 1: Preproduction High Performance 289 engines made at any time between about December 1962 and February 28, 1963. Engine 6 was documented going into a new Cobra.

• 1963½ Type 2: Production High Performance 289 engines made between March 1, 1963 and about early May 1963. We know that Engine 9 was assembled March 1 and went into a Cobra.

• 1963¾: Production High Performance 289 engines made between early May 1963 and the end of June 1963; no HP289 engines were made during July 1963. New ignition distributor and carburetor assemblies were introduced as the major changes. This is where the C3OF-9510-AJ carburetor replaced the prior C3OF-9510-AB unit. The only known (so far) production date for the "1963" run of the C3OF-AJ model was 3EB (1963, May, 2nd Week).

1963½ summary, approximately 1,550 engines were made by Ford. The rarest parts and or engines was made before about March 7, 1963 and the last few weeks of the model year.

• 1964 Production High Performance 289 engines made between August 1963 and about the second or third week of May 1964. There were several engine parts with revised or new designs over that span but in major details they were pretty much all alike. This is the largest group of nearly identical engines. Key details changed about February 17, 1964.

• 1964¾ Production High Performance 289 engines made between about the second or third week of May 1964 and mid- July 1964. Cobra wise the significance was the introduction of C4OE-B cylinder head castings based cylinder head assemblies and the introduction of C4OF-AL manual choke carburetors.

1964 summary, approximately 4,120 engines were made. The rarest parts or engines were made in the last six weeks of the model year.

1964+ (42 each went into new Cobras) Really odd five bolt bell housing engines identified with metal tags for a 1964 engine assembled during the 1965 model year. These engine were a mix of parts as used in 1964¾ engines and early 1965 model year engines.

1965 engines with High Performance C4 automatic transmissions (15 each went into new Cobras) and introduced six bolt bell housing cylinder blocks and C4OF-9510-AT manual choke carburetors to Cobras (except the engines converted to 2-4V induction by Shelby American.


Bear in mind that Ford often included revisions to engine parts and subassemblies every year during August, September, February, and May during the time Cobras were being produced. The descriptions above are the broad strokes generalizations.

[S7MS427]

Dan, I guess I wasn't very clear in my question.  Let me restate: what was included in the cylinder block assembly?  I would assume that would be the block, main caps, and main cap bolts.

I have to say that I am blown away by the depth of your knowledge regarding this subject.  All of your comments are very illuminating.  Thanks for sharing your information and I hope to hear more from your 200+ pages of notes.

[Dan Case]

Dan, I guess I wasn't very clear in my question.  Let me restate: what was included in the cylinder block assembly?  I would assume that would be the block, main caps, and main cap bolts.

I have to say that I am blown away by the depth of your knowledge regarding this subject.  All of your comments are very illuminating.  Thanks for sharing your information and I hope to hear more from your 200+ pages of notes.

You are welcome. I went and added up the recently used "Cobra" engine related files, 474 pages accumulated over decades of time with help from many people including Bob Mannel.  That does not include more obscure files rarely used.

Cylinder block assemblies got their own assembly date stamps. One of my files shows the applicable casting and stamped dates on the original block for a specific Cobra the owner shared with me. I sent an inquiry to Bob asking about pieces inlcuded. The answer came back the cylinder block assembly included the cylinder block (machined), main bearing caps and bolts, side wall core plugs (a.k.a. frost or freeze plugs), the threaded gallery plugs at the rear, the camshaft bore sealing press in core plug, gallery sealing the press in core plugs for galleries up front, and camshaft bearing inserts.

HP289 engine assembly dates 1963-64 were usually within a day or two of cylinder block assembly dates and often the same day. Situations could have happened to enlarge the gap I suspect. Data is slim because few people seem to even look for all the dates much less record them.

[KerryBWhite]

I have to say that I am blown away by the depth of your knowledge regarding this subject.  All of your comments are very illuminating.  Thanks for sharing your information and I hope to hear more from your 200+ pages of notes.
[/quote]

+100    Just WOW

[TA Coupe]

Is all of your information going to be in a book for future reference when you are no longer around?

       Roy

[Dan Case]

Is all of your information going to be in a book for future reference when you are no longer around?

       Roy

I am not planning on it. It is a continuing process that started circa May 1968. I got more serious around 1971-72 studying CSX2144 parked nearby to us. CSX2465 was not far away at the edge of the neighborhood. Later in the 1970s I studied enough to determine which range of Cobras I was interested in finding one of to purchase. I spend part of every day on some subject or another and have since the early 1990s. I am for sure not a writer.


Most text, data, and slide show files get frequent updates as I can get to them when more or better information becomes available. Today's file can literally be outdated next week or in two months. Depending on subject interest level, as a routine, one to several Cobra owners and three shop owners here and in the U.K., Germany, and Austria get digital copies of new files and revised files.  If I do not have coverage on a subject already, I can almost always find out or I know who else probably can and will. The current 52 page slide show on fuel pumps and ancillaries started as a single question I did not know the exact answer to.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Dan, I guess I wasn't very clear in my question.  Let me restate: what was included in the cylinder block assembly?  I would assume that would be the block, main caps, and main cap bolts.

"assembly" would seem to answer your own question. It would be completely finished and ready to start down the line (or be shipped to a dealer as a part) to become a completed engine. Freeze plugs, cam bearings, all the little plugs that allowed machine work, main caps and bolts. I would assume that Ford's race teams such as SA, HM and others could get an unmachined completely bare block to complete some of their race engines. Even later Motorsport offered the NASCAR block with unfinished cylinders to the public allowing builders to control their final machining preferences.

[S7MS427]

Dan, thank you.  That confirms what I suspected would be included in this type of assembly.

[Dan Case]

Dan, thank you.  That confirms what I suspected would be included in this type of assembly.

You are welcome.  Occasionally someone finds an old used 1963-64 cylinder block, short block, long block, or engine core with HP289 specific components in it but no Ford serial number on the block.  No real mystery, Ford did sell all the parts over the counter and people have been collecting parts for projects since the 1960s.  Ford sold "COBRA KITS" to hop up standard engines with all factory parts.

Then there are the others:
1)   Shelby American received 48 each odd five bolt engines made right at six (6) weeks after 1965 model year six bolt bell housing engines went into production. I mentioned them above. They were tagged as 1964 engines with a date in the 1965 model run. Most of the parts were the same as mid-May 1964 to early June 1964 engines but some were parts being introduced as something new for the 1965 model year. A Ford dealer's service department would have really been confused by them.  Ford did not put serial numbers on them, but Shelby American created their own numbering system and stamped them. That, Shelby numbers for new Cobra engines, confuses people from time to time.


2)   Complete service replacement five bolt HP289 engines. We have seen engines with five bolt blocks cast in year 1965 in service engines. A friend bought a service five bolt engine with a 1971 assembly date he claims although I never saw it. These engines did not get Ford serial numbers and they confuse people not aware of how service engine fit in the scheme of history.


3)   Race engines, any year: Race engines, significant sized teams typically, were likely to have serialized numbers stamped into them somewhere. Shelby American added serial numbers to early 48 IDM1/IDM5 carburetors, race prepared cylinder heads in matched sets, and engines. Ford Advanced Vehicles had a numbering system. I have seen Holman-Moody identification tags on 289 engines, and some other teams using 48 IDA/IDA1 carburetors gave them serial numbers.  Some teams painted numbers on 4-2V carburetor sets and some stamped numbers. I have the complete induction system from Shelby American engine RD-4 (Randy Gillis told me that meant Racing Development #4) used in the 1967 Shelby-Titus Group II Mustang. The intake manifold is stamped RD-4. Anyway, all these race team numbers tangle lots of people up.