Registering and titling a '65 GT350

[shelbymann1970]

I know this has probably been asked many times, but this is the first '65 GT350 I have ever had so wanted to check. I see on the title of the car I am buying has only the Shelby serial number, no Ford VIN. I am assuming my state, New Mexico, will transfer the title using that number on it and the registration without any problems or questions about a Ford VIN. I am hoping all states recognize the Shelby serial number and not a Ford VIN, correct?

As you mention, it is is titled in another state with the Shelby VIN, SFM5Sxxx. This is 100% correct. That is the "official" VIN and the only one that should be on the title.

Although I am not familiar with your state's DMV, there should be absolutely no problem titling it with that same number in your state. In Virginia, they would title it exactly as listed on the out of state title.

As far as the "model or make" listed, it doesn't really matter, although you definitely want it to be a "1965." I've seen "Ford," "Mustang," "Shelby," etc.

States vary on how they title Shelbys even in the same state. My 70 Vert is titled as a Ford even though my French title turned in  said 1970 Shelby GT350 Cabriolet. My 68 Shelby had a Shelby title. That is Michigan.

[Mikelj5S230]

Mike, How about a LLC in Montana and eliminate the taxes on it altogether.

Serious reading and wise counsel is encouraged before you go down this road.

I agree, and I went through this about 15 years ago as I started building my Shelby and Corvette collections.  I like to drive my cars, frequently, to numerous events. I have a friend who is a State Police officer and he said they are very aware of what he called the "Montana scam" to evade taxes in NM, so are very vigilant in spotting cars with Montana plates.  If you don't have a NM title and thus a NM registration and plate, they have a law here that provides for fines if you live here and continue to drive around with an out of state car.  That is enough for me.

[pchmotoho]

I know this has probably been asked many times, but this is the first '65 GT350 I have ever had so wanted to check. I see on the title of the car I am buying has only the Shelby serial number, no Ford VIN. I am assuming my state, New Mexico, will transfer the title using that number on it and the registration without any problems or questions about a Ford VIN. I am hoping all states recognize the Shelby serial number and not a Ford VIN, correct?

Unfortunately all states are not the same and it is more a bureaucratic issue meaning it depends on the state and also the person in the state. Technically Shelby and the Shelby VIN is the MFG of record and all states should recognize that. Some times you may have to argue the point with supporting documentation to get the correct way. If you are lucky you will not. In the end it really doesn't matter if you can't win the argument because there was only one Ford VIN that went with one specific Shelby VIN and vice versa.  On the tax side a 65 Shelby VIN can be easily flagged in the system for its high 6 figure value in those states that collect personal property tax every year base on the cars value. That is what happens in my home state of MO on a evolving basis for classic cars that are identifiable as high value. A Ford VIN identifies a old Mustang not worth enough to bother.

that's interesting that MO will flag certain vins. In Ca (at least 10 years ago) there was absolutely nothing like that.  You could register any car with Vin number SFM5S*** or FZZ....... (Ferrari) and nothing will trigger any alerts. I was told by multiple sources with much DMV knowledge that absolutely no one looks at VIN #s when sales are reported (private party) and their is no disclosed selling price by the seller.

[Bob Gaines]

I know this has probably been asked many times, but this is the first '65 GT350 I have ever had so wanted to check. I see on the title of the car I am buying has only the Shelby serial number, no Ford VIN. I am assuming my state, New Mexico, will transfer the title using that number on it and the registration without any problems or questions about a Ford VIN. I am hoping all states recognize the Shelby serial number and not a Ford VIN, correct?

Unfortunately all states are not the same and it is more a bureaucratic issue meaning it depends on the state and also the person in the state. Technically Shelby and the Shelby VIN is the MFG of record and all states should recognize that. Some times you may have to argue the point with supporting documentation to get the correct way. If you are lucky you will not. In the end it really doesn't matter if you can't win the argument because there was only one Ford VIN that went with one specific Shelby VIN and vice versa.  On the tax side a 65 Shelby VIN can be easily flagged in the system for its high 6 figure value in those states that collect personal property tax every year base on the cars value. That is what happens in my home state of MO on a evolving basis for classic cars that are identifiable as high value. A Ford VIN identifies a old Mustang not worth enough to bother.

that's interesting that MO will flag certain vins. In Ca (at least 10 years ago) there was absolutely nothing like that.  You could register any car with Vin number SFM5S*** or FZZ....... (Ferrari) and nothing will trigger any alerts. I was told by multiple sources with much DMV knowledge that absolutely no one looks at VIN #s when sales are reported (private party) and their is no disclosed selling price by the seller.

If they still don't notice anything in CA count yourself lucky . In my state of MO they will do what ever they need to so as to bring in more tax revenue. It is more so with the name Shelby,Pantera ,Cobra etc. that cause the red flag to raise . They caught my Pantera because of its name on the title and accessed its value based on a CPI book at the time (Cars of Particular Interest)that they used for that office but not my 1965 MKII Cobra which had "65 Ford" on the title or any of my Shelby's which had Ford Mustang. The Mustang value and the 65 Ford were accessed at extremely low fraction of what the Pantera book value was. I felt I got off lucky given the Pantera was the least valuable of the bunch by comparison. We pay personal property tax on cars annually.

[SCJSTU]

Mike, How about a LLC in Montana and eliminate the taxes on it altogether.

Serious reading and wise counsel is encouraged before you go down this road.

I agree, and I went through this about 15 years ago as I started building my Shelby and Corvette collections.  I like to drive my cars, frequently, to numerous events. I have a friend who is a State Police officer and he said they are very aware of what he called the "Montana scam" to evade taxes in NM, so are very vigilant in spotting cars with Montana plates.  If you don't have a NM title and thus a NM registration and plate, they have a law here that provides for fines if you live here and continue to drive around with an out of state car.  That is enough for me.

Georgia has done the same thing on cracking down on Montana plates here

[shelbymann1970]

I know this has probably been asked many times, but this is the first '65 GT350 I have ever had so wanted to check. I see on the title of the car I am buying has only the Shelby serial number, no Ford VIN. I am assuming my state, New Mexico, will transfer the title using that number on it and the registration without any problems or questions about a Ford VIN. I am hoping all states recognize the Shelby serial number and not a Ford VIN, correct?

Unfortunately all states are not the same and it is more a bureaucratic issue meaning it depends on the state and also the person in the state. Technically Shelby and the Shelby VIN is the MFG of record and all states should recognize that. Some times you may have to argue the point with supporting documentation to get the correct way. If you are lucky you will not. In the end it really doesn't matter if you can't win the argument because there was only one Ford VIN that went with one specific Shelby VIN and vice versa.  On the tax side a 65 Shelby VIN can be easily flagged in the system for its high 6 figure value in those states that collect personal property tax every year base on the cars value. That is what happens in my home state of MO on a evolving basis for classic cars that are identifiable as high value. A Ford VIN identifies a old Mustang not worth enough to bother.

that's interesting that MO will flag certain vins. In Ca (at least 10 years ago) there was absolutely nothing like that.  You could register any car with Vin number SFM5S*** or FZZ....... (Ferrari) and nothing will trigger any alerts. I was told by multiple sources with much DMV knowledge that absolutely no one looks at VIN #s when sales are reported (private party) and their is no disclosed selling price by the seller.

If they still don't notice anything in CA count yourself lucky . In my state of MO they will do what ever they need to so as to bring in more tax revenue. It is more so with the name Shelby,Pantera ,Cobra etc. that cause the red flag to raise . They caught my Pantera because of its name on the title and accessed its value based on a CPI book at the time (Cars of Particular Interest)that they used for that office but not my 1965 MKII Cobra which had "65 Ford" on the title or any of my Shelby's which had Ford Mustang. The Mustang value and the 65 Ford were accessed at extremely low fraction of what the Pantera book value was. I felt I got off lucky given the Pantera was the least valuable of the bunch by comparison. We pay personal property tax on cars annually.

what is the personal property tax rate on autos in Mo? I read online where Va is 4.15 per 100 so that would be 4150 per 100K per year just to own the car in Va? that is nuts. Here in Mi I have paid ZERO for years and have a lifetime same year plate on my Shelby. Ditto for my Mach1.

[CharlesTurner]

The Shelby's I've titled here in N. Carolina have 'Ford' as the make and they base value as a Mustang.  I'm not going to argue with them as others have noted the taxes are considerably less.  Last one I did 6 months ago, showed the bill of sale since the car was bought from a no-title state, but they still used the Mustang value. 

[Mikelj5S230]

The Shelby's I've titled here in N. Carolina have 'Ford' as the make and they base value as a Mustang.  I'm not going to argue with them as others have noted the taxes are considerably less.  Last one I did 6 months ago, showed the bill of sale since the car was bought from a no-title state, but they still used the Mustang value.

That's interesting, here they use the sales price on the bill of sale for the value to calculate the 4% excise tax. But we do not pay taxes on values after that for personal property except real estate.

[Bill]

I know this has probably been asked many times, but this is the first '65 GT350 I have ever had so wanted to check. I see on the title of the car I am buying has only the Shelby serial number, no Ford VIN. I am assuming my state, New Mexico, will transfer the title using that number on it and the registration without any problems or questions about a Ford VIN. I am hoping all states recognize the Shelby serial number and not a Ford VIN, correct?

New Mexico is a "reciprocal" state, in simple terms, this means that they will duplicate what the current title of the car lists on it. If the person at the Motor Vehicle Department (MVD) has questions, which is not likely, they will get a higher management team involved. Again, not likely, but it all depends on their training and experience.  Since there have been numerous 65-66 GT350 Shelbys previously titled in the state, the SFM format of VIN is already in their system, again making for an easy transition on your part. It is only when you are the first to title in the state, that you run in to minor hiccups in the process. My sound advice, don't try to reinvent the wheel, go with the flow, and it will go smoothly. Try to game the state to save sales tax, will get you more scrutiny than you might desire.

Bill

[KR Convertible]

I would think they would hit the "easy button" and just use what is on the previous title.  Mine is titled as a Mustang and I'm good with that.  It does have its benefits, and I'll leave it at that.

Regardless of how you get it titled,  LET'S SEE SOME PICTURES MIKE!!! 

[Brant]

what is the personal property tax rate on autos in Mo? I read online where Va is 4.15 per 100 so that would be 4150 per 100K per year just to own the car in Va? that is nuts. Here in Mi I have paid ZERO for years and have a lifetime same year plate on my Shelby. Ditto for my Mach1.
[/quote]

In VA, that is a one time sales tax amount on the purchase price of the vehicle. Older cars like that then don't get included in the annual personal property tax.

[Bob Gaines]

what is the personal property tax rate on autos in Mo? I read online where Va is 4.15 per 100 so that would be 4150 per 100K per year just to own the car in Va? that is nuts. Here in Mi I have paid ZERO for years and have a lifetime same year plate on my Shelby. Ditto for my Mach1.

It is not a simple answer for MO. It is different depending on city ,county ,school district, and library. Some rural areas even have tax levies for fire districts. All those things have a different different tax levy rates that are added together depending on where you live which equals your tax levy rate . Your personal property tax for that vehicle is calculated by dividing the assessed value of the property by 100, and then multiplying that value by the tax  levy rate for your area. That amount is what you pay in Personal Property Tax every year.  That is why there is incentive to look at the appreciating value of collector cars so as to generate more tax revenue. At least in those states that have a personal property annual tax.

[68blk500c]

A collector car (read not driven) may not purposely be registered for these reasons, which may become an issue when sold.

[Mikelj5S230]

I would think they would hit the "easy button" and just use what is on the previous title.  Mine is titled as a Mustang and I'm good with that.  It does have its benefits, and I'll leave it at that.

Regardless of how you get it titled,  LET'S SEE SOME PICTURES MIKE!!!

OK, and my thanks to Vern for completing a quest for one that started way back in 2015 when I first met him....S230

[KR Convertible]

Nice!!  Congrats!