'69/'70 Wheels

[Survivor]

I'm looking at an original/used set of wheels for a '69/'70 Shelby-no center caps...  Buyer is listing two of them as "the riveted type".  Guessing they are probably not off the same car?  And, what's up with riveted vs. not riveted.

[Coralsnake]

http://www.thecoralsnake.com/69tires.html

[Survivor]

Thanks Pete-so, possible that they are off the same car as perhaps 2 of the wheels were not recalled?  Or, did all wheels fall under the recall program regardless of prior bad acts so to speak.

[Bob Gaines]

Thanks Pete-so, possible that they are off the same car as perhaps 2 of the wheels were not recalled?  Or, did all wheels fall under the recall program regardless of prior bad acts so to speak.

No not off of the same car and most likely a mis matched set. It would be extremley unlikely and wouldn't make sense that only 2 wheels out of a set would be switch out because of the recall and not the other two if they were all on the same car.

[Bob Gaines]

Just to be clear the glue in pressed in centers were the recalled wheels. The Shelby wheels with rivets was the factory replacement ad assemblyline wheel post recall.

[TLea]

There have been several known original cars with glued and riveted on same car. Certainly not common

[Coralsnake]

I could be wrong, but its my understanding that the issues for the recall had to with the holes drilled for the lugs, not the gluing process?

I am not sure when the rivets started (I can look that up) Is it possible some of the riveted wheels were also covered by the recall?

[Bob Gaines]

I could be wrong, but its my understanding that the issues for the recall had to with the holes drilled for the lugs, not the gluing process?

I am not sure when the rivets started (I can look that up) Is it possible some of the riveted wheels were also covered by the recall?

It is my understanding that glued and pressed in wheels had some cracking in the center issues which was the reason they were recalled and replaced with the riveted version which provided a more positive fastening of the wheel. The chamfered (countersunk) issue of the wheel was no doubt a part of the problem too. The S7MS lugnuts with the extra thread before the chamfer provided a solution. I remember finding lugnuts that looked like the S7MS lugnuts but they didn't have the extra thread before the chamfer. I have always assumed that those were the ones used first. The wheels that had the chamfer problem were also the pressed in center wheels . The recall killed two birds with one stone.   

[KR500]

There have been several known original cars with glued and riveted on same car. Certainly not common

+1. I had an one (original) owner 69 500 convertible in my shop last summer. It had a mix of glued and riveted wheels. He has all the paper work on the car. No warranty work as per Vinny. I think it has 2 of each type if I remember correctly.

Rodney

[Bob Gaines]

There have been several known original cars with glued and riveted on same car. Certainly not common

+1. I had an one (original) owner 69 500 convertible in my shop last summer. It had a mix of glued and riveted wheels. He has all the paper work on the car. No warranty work as per Vinny. I think it has 2 of each type if I remember correctly.

Rodney

So no recorded warranty work and yet a mixer of wheels . That doesn't make sense that Ford would mix the two inferior recalled glue in and superseded riveted.  If you are implying that was the way they were from the assemblyline.

[Bob Gaines]

There have been several known original cars with glued and riveted on same car. Certainly not common

Tim we are in the anything is possible realm however that is why I said "extremely unlikely" in my previous post because anything is possible although extremely unlikely. I can think of a few reasons why a dealer may not have replaced all of a set of recall wheels . One that I have first hand information about is that they couldn't get enough of the replacement Shelby wheel and the only other alternative was the 15 inch BOSS wheel which was like hens teeth trying to find back in the day. Maybe a partial recall service with what they had on hand and owner never went back. I know similar things have happened. Years later I have since heard and seen of a few peoples cars that did get the replacement BOSS wheels and never went back and got the Shelby wheels.  I did everything under the sun back in early 70 Boss wheels to get a set for my Mach I and even had the performance parts mgr for the KC area on my side helping. He was in charge of getting the various recall parts back then at Broadway and Tall Paul Ford both Shelby dealers. I could not get the wheels even with my connections.  I have talked to original owners over the years (50 and counting) that when recall subject came up said that when notified they had sold the car already. A subsequent owner may never know they needed to take the car back. Recall info didn't follow a car like it does now. The reality is the glue in wheels were not that bad given there are many cars (and trailers ) that have run them with out a issue for decades. The only big problem I have seen years later is that the glue in wheels had a tendency for the center to corrode where it meets the rim which makes them dangerous and non restorable. The riveted wheels can suffer from the same affliction but for what ever reason not near even close as often. In concours trying to justify a non matching set 69/70 Shelby wheels as uncommon original that would be makes one come off sounding like one of  the typical disingenuous stories we have all heard over the years to try and justify something that is not original on a car IMO. Of course if you have some kind of reasonable proof that can make a difference.

[TA Coupe]

Also some wheels went out the back door without being destroyed and got sold that way. Kind of like all the lunch box parts that have been sold on Ebay for decades.

      Roy

[KR500]

There have been several known original cars with glued and riveted on same car. Certainly not common

+1. I had an one (original) owner 69 500 convertible in my shop last summer. It had a mix of glued and riveted wheels. He has all the paper work on the car. No warranty work as per Vinny. I think it has 2 of each type if I remember correctly.

Rodney

So no recorded warranty work and yet a mixer of wheels . That doesn't make sense that Ford would mix the two inferior recalled glue in and superseded riveted.  If you are implying that was the way they were from the assemblyline.

Bob
That is what I am implying. I have seen plenty of miss matched parts on vehicles right off the assembly line. Just came across one yesterday. Nobody can prove it one way or the other, but a one owner fairly low mile no accident car with lots of paper work and no warranty work shown. I am thinking that the chances of it being an assembly line miss matched are pretty high. Why would a car be recalled without all the parts to do the job? Makes no sense to me to only have two wheels replaced and not all four. Strange things happen.

[Special Ed]

I have and had several 69 shelbys with both wheels on them and back in the mid 80s i took the wheels off low mile purple car to change tires and 1 side they were riveted and the other  side glued. This could have something to do with aosmith assembly line if wheels and tires were on both sides of assembly line and they didnt care about keeping them matched all 4 the same depending on how the inventory was stored 2 wheels were installed on left side of assemby line and 2 wheels installed on right side done by 2 different workers kinda like we see kelsey hayes on 1 side and bendix on the other etc just an example. Years ago at portland swap meet i came across 4 69 shelby wheels with red paint on the backside and a very early date on rim  and remember something was different about the design so thinking they were maybe prototype i called billups and said they would be good on the  early black gt500 vert recently found in detroit so i went back to buy them and they dissappered or were sold after i looked at them but i did take photos of them but dont know where they are now but something was different on them wheels that i never seen before. Remember the new 15x7'' 69 shelby rim was the first wheel to be used with new F-60-15 polyglas gt tires before the 69 boss 429  15x7''magnums that started later in jan 69. These shelby rims are dated so thats one way to tell when the rivet design started. The lugnut hole depth problem is what i think the recall was mostly about as i started watching the lug nut hole depth on these wheels after the  recall letter was found and have seen several machineing hole depths that vary some much deeper cut than others so its more of a machineing problem than the wheel inself in most cases anyway. The riveted wheel we took apart had glued in center also but he glue wasnt all the way around the rim as there was a 4'' area that had no glue between the rim and center but being glued and riveted it was a stronger design. 

[Coralsnake]

The red mark was the mark of a rejected wheel (post recall) if I recall correctly.

Since the rivets started fairly early, I am sure many of those wheels were also recalled.