31 spline axle seal spacer (sleave) location?

[68stangcjfb]

So a friend of mine says the seal spacer (sleave) should be positioned closer to the tapered Edge where the seal rides. I say it should be closer to the center of where the seal rides to get maximum seal effect. Who is right or are we both wrong and the position is somewhere else? His 1970 shop manual seems to have no mention of the seal spacer at all.

[Royce Peterson]

I always press it on together with the bearing and retainer so all are touching.

[68stangcjfb]

When I've done bearings, I've noticed the retainers are not always the same thickness with the aftermarket bearings. If you have a thinner bearing retainer, I'm thinking it's going to push the sleeve too far and it will not contact the seal correctly. Do you know how thick the factory Ford bearing retainer is?

[azdriver]

My original axles. I noticed the retainers are stepped. The NOS ones I have are square.

Pat

[Royce Peterson]

Current bearing retainers are the same thickness as originals but square. The seal rides pretty much in the center of the seal sleeve so it is not critical at all - it's maybe 3/4" wide so there is a lot of room for error.

I got one set of seal sleeves from Dead Nuts On but they have been out of them lately. Recently I bought some here: https://www.mustangsetc.com/9-31-spline-rear-axle-seal-sleeve/

[68stangcjfb]

Thanks for the info.

[pbf777]

        Although there often is more than one way doing things and acquire the same outcome, I always press the seal sleeve on separately.   

        First, the thin sleeve with it's radiused edge really isn't strong enough or intended as a pressing fixture for the installation of the bearing and retainer (which definitely should be pressed on together); and then the seal sleeve will in it's installation effort will stop either when it abuts the bearing retainer and the bearing is stopped in motion by the step machined into the axle for this intention, or, often when the radiused over edge contacts the necking up of the axle shaft from the narrower unmachined as forged surface to the larger in diameter machined surface intended as the relief for the next step up to the bearing locating surface and this length is not a well controlled dimension, and you don't want this to be dictating the bearings' position vs. the intended bearing shoulder stop as machined in the axle.   

        Look closely at the photo provided in the previous posting and one will witness that the sleeve appears to not be in contact with the bearing retainer ring.   

        Scott.   

[TLea]

Never seen an original up against bearing retainer. They have always been 1/4" +/- away

[Royce Peterson]

Not sure why that would be - the witness mark from the seal is evident and it isn't centered if you don't press the seal on all the way.

[ShelbyBoss]

My original axles. I noticed the retainers are stepped. The NOS ones I have are square.
Pat

Current bearing retainers are the same thickness as originals but square. The seal rides pretty much in the center of the seal sleeve so it is not critical at all - it's maybe 3/4" wide so there is a lot of room for error.

I got one set of seal sleeves from Dead Nuts On but they have been out of them lately. Recently I bought some here: https://www.mustangsetc.com/9-31-spline-rear-axle-seal-sleeve/

        Although there often is more than one way doing things and acquire the same outcome, I always press the seal sleeve on separately.   

        First, the thin sleeve with it's radiused edge really isn't strong enough or intended as a pressing fixture for the installation of the bearing and retainer (which definitely should be pressed on together); and then the seal sleeve will in it's installation effort will stop either when it abuts the bearing retainer and the bearing is stopped in motion by the step machined into the axle for this intention, or, often when the radiused over edge contacts the necking up of the axle shaft from the narrower unmachined as forged surface to the larger in diameter machined surface intended as the relief for the next step up to the bearing locating surface and this length is not a well controlled dimension, and you don't want this to be dictating the bearings' position vs. the intended bearing shoulder stop as machined in the axle.   

        Look closely at the photo provided in the previous posting and one will witness that the sleeve appears to not be in contact with the bearing retainer ring.   

        Scott.   

Thanks you Paul, Pat, Royce, Scott and all others that replied!

The original post was about my 1970 Boss 302 that was leaking rear axle fluid.  The problem I'm grappling with is where to tell the machine shop to press on the new seal sleeves I got from Mustang Etc.  Does anyone have an exact specification or measurement?  Trying to get the car prepped for judging at the MCA 60th in Barber Motorsports Park on April 5-7.  I'm leaving on Wednesday 4/3.  That is if I can stop this car from leaking rear axle fluid.  See photos attached; the passenger side axle seems to be the problem.  It seems to me the passenger side seal sleeve (longer axle) is not straight (pressed on crooked).  The driver's side was moved from it's original position.

The Machine shop (that I was advised to take them to) said "where do you want me to put them?".  I can't find any mention of "seal sleeves" or anything like it in the 1970 Ford Shop Manual (Volume 1 page 15-02-nn Driveline / rear axle section.  Machine shops, engine builders, Ford dealers - no one even knew what the proper name of the part was.  The Machinist said he'd take the old ones off and see if he could see where they were originally pressed on. It's amazing that with all the references I went to, I couldn't find one document with an exact specification (e.g. "Press the seal sleeve on 42-3/4 inches from the splined end" or something like that). 

Any thoughts before I give the Machinist his instructions tomorrow morning? 

[pbf777]

Any thoughts before I give the Machinist his instructions tomorrow morning?

     In the past when I've been involved with providing service that involved the removal of these I would always take a measurement of where the seal was riding and then this would provide a guide as to were to target the seal ring in order to provide that the seal would be located on the flat of the ring.  If though your off in left field fishing for where they should go, then I would go to the axle housing and assuming that the axles are not installed but that the seals are pressed into place and acquire a measurement from the bearing stop machined on the inside of the axle housing end inward to the seals' sealing lip, what is this distance?  Now take this dimension and measure from the face of the axle bearing's outer race, that which contacts the stop in the housing tube end, to the point on the axle shaft as measured and make a mark (Magic-Marker  ), this is where the seal lip will ride, the sleeve needs to pressed on to a position so as to present the flat surface in the diameter for the seal to ride upon, actual distance for or aft is not critical.   

      Do be sure that if your R & R 'd the seals that you acquired the as originally proper for 31-spline axle application.   

      Scott.

[Royce Peterson]

There is no dimension. The shop manual says nothing about it. All of the parts are pressed on as far as they will go. This results in the seal being centered on the seal sleeve. You can press them on individually or together. Either way grease the axle shafts first.