5 Original Restored Cragars on BaT

[Shelby_r_b]

Good morning!

Below is a link to my auction for 5 original restored Cragar Wheels. This will close late Monday afternoon.

Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Thanks!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/wheels-75/

[Karguy]

Wow, Wow, Wow
I was shocked to see the notice from BAT that the 5 65/66 "restored" Cragers had sold for the sum of $10,250.
Paradise Wheels is currently showing them on their site for $850. each including center caps. What am I missing here??
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/wheels-75/?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_2355582#comments-anchor

[5s386]

Wow, Wow, Wow
I was shocked to see the notice from BAT that the 5 65/66 "restored" Cragers had sold for the sum of $10,250.
Paradise Wheels is currently showing them on their site for $800 each including center caps. What am I missing here??
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/wheels-75/?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaign_2355582#comments-anchor

The $800. each wheel price is for reproductions, not rerimmed original Cragars.

[FL SAAC Team Leader]

That money is for original but refurbished wheels.

[Bob Gaines]

That money is for original but refurbished wheels.

Ironically at the end of the day they (original and replacement) both look the same front and back. Same DOT compliant replacement rims and the centers are cast by the same company that did the originals and the same in appearance.

[sfm5]

That money is for original but refurbished wheels.

Ironically at the end of the day they (original and replacement) both look the same front and back. Same DOT compliant replacement rims and the centers are cast by the same company that did the originals and the same in appearance.

So would concours judges take that into account, ie: would there be a premium on unrestored original Cragars for someone doing a concours level restoration back to original spec?

[Coralsnake]

The parts that are original get no deduction or the least deductions. Condition and workmanship figure in as well.

Any variation from the correct parts stands a chance of losing points.

Someone just a paid a lot of extra money for little or no gain with regards to the concours question

[SFM5S159]

That money is for original but refurbished wheels.

Ironically at the end of the day they (original and replacement) both look the same front and back. Same DOT compliant replacement rims and the centers are cast by the same company that did the originals and the same in appearance.

Is there any way to distinguish a replacement set from a restored, re-rimmed set?  Both have the same S1MS part number?

[Bob Gaines]

That money is for original but refurbished wheels.

Ironically at the end of the day they (original and replacement) both look the same front and back. Same DOT compliant replacement rims and the centers are cast by the same company that did the originals and the same in appearance.

Is there any way to distinguish a replacement set from a restored, re-rimmed set?  Both have the same S1MS part number?

If I remember correctly the welding of the center to the rim is slightly different between the two. In Div I or MCA Thoroughbred class's nether would get a pass.

[shelbymann1970]

That money is for original but refurbished wheels.

Ironically at the end of the day they (original and replacement) both look the same front and back. Same DOT compliant replacement rims and the centers are cast by the same company that did the originals and the same in appearance.

So Bob, I know when Craig did a couple of sets of 69 wheels in 1990 he couldn't save both IIRC. So the rim was a reproduction with original centers. Is it possible to save both when restoring original wheels (65 or 69-70s or 67s)? If not can Craig save the rim at the expense of the disc or would it be illegal to put the 2 together with a non DOT rim? Too bad someone had to put out a false comment alluding the wheels were all original but refurbished-discs and rims.

[SFM5S159]

I'm pretty certain I saw this discussed on here more than once...He can't "legally" reattach a non DOT marked rim back to the center, even if it was manufactured that way. 

So it begs the question...Why pay more than double for original centers on new rims?   I can see the argument for an intake manifold, valve covers, oil pans, a carb or other items that remain as manufactured after they are refinished or restored.   Once half of the item is replaced, it's not really "original" in my view.   But clearly the buyer has a different view! 

[Bob Gaines]

That money is for original but refurbished wheels.

Ironically at the end of the day they (original and replacement) both look the same front and back. Same DOT compliant replacement rims and the centers are cast by the same company that did the originals and the same in appearance.

So Bob, I know when Craig did a couple of sets of 69 wheels in 1990 he couldn't save both IIRC. So the rim was a reproduction with original centers. Is it possible to save both when restoring original wheels (65 or 69-70s or 67s)? If not can Craig save the rim at the expense of the disc or would it be illegal to put the 2 together with a non DOT rim? Too bad someone had to put out a false comment alluding the wheels were all original but refurbished-discs and rims.

The answer is different depending on the wheel. The 69 wheel the center is typically more brittle and you have to cut through the rim to save the center. The opposite applies if you want to save the rim.  In the case of the Crager the center can be machine cut out saving the rim too. I assume that there is extra precautions and extra care/work to achieve that. Craig doesn't save the rims on the Cragers so a more efficient or quicker way is most likely the normal given the rims will be replaced with DOT compliant regardless. It is not illegal to mate the two if restoring. In Craigs case he has told me a number of times over the years that it is a product liability issue/concern that he only use DOT approved rims instead of rechroming original rims and or using rivets (67-70 Shelby). At least for him. 

[FL SAAC Team Leader]

we have to respect the transaction

when a buyer and seller are happy after a transaction, it's a "clean deal" that's all that matters

beautiful set of wheels 

[Bob Gaines]

I'm pretty certain I saw this discussed on here more than once...He can't "legally" reattach a non DOT marked rim back to the center, even if it was manufactured that way. 

So it begs the question...Why pay more than double for original centers on new rims?  I can see the argument for an intake manifold, valve covers, oil pans, a carb or other items that remain as manufactured after they are refinished or restored.  Once half of the item is replaced, it's not really "original" in my view.  But clearly the buyer has a different view! 

I don't remember anything in past discussions about being illegal to restore one with old rims given I most likely participated in most passed discussions. Craig has been using the DOT rim for at least 30 + years that I am aware of . During that time I know of others in CA as well as other parts of the country that would and have rechromed and reattach original rims. That is up to about 5 years ago when the last Company I was aware closed their business. I haven't needed to do something like that so I did not have a incentive to keep up with companies that did. I have heard rumors of other companies that still do that service. Consequently since others have offered the service during the time that Craig has used the DOT rims makes me skeptical of the illegal statement. I think the legality issue comes into play when both parts center and rim are all new parts. Restoring is allowed however a product liability issue is always a possibility.That may not be it but that is my logical conclusion based on similar mfg processes in the restoration world.

[SFM5S159]

Bob, yes, I used quotes on "legally" to convey that it was not a quote verbatim.  Perhaps I used the wrong term.  The liability issue is certainly the underlying rationale for not using original rims.  Thanks