Removing Undercoating but Not Paint

[Ldouble619]

Well I guess I'll be dead soon....  I used a torch and scraper on my 69. No respirator 

[Shelby_r_b]

Thanks everyone for the great input!  And, I had NO idea that some the sound deadening had asbestos in it...yikes!  So far, the only undercoating I've removed was with a rag and some de-greaser that didn't make it flake off - it was more like grunge sliding off, if that makes sense.

One more question:  if you're going to do a rotisserie restoration on a car, do you even need to remove the sound deadened on the belly first?  Or, should you have it blasted off instead?  Or, is there value in removing the undercoating manually first?

Please advise as to pros and cons.  Thanks!

[KR Convertible]

If you blast it off, you will lose your original overspray patterns and the ability to document them.

If you use heat or a solvent, any asbestos should remain in the goo.  It's when you blast, grind or wire wheel that the asbestos will get in the air.

[Brant]

Thanks everyone for the great input!  And, I had NO idea that some the sound deadening had asbestos in it...yikes!  So far, the only undercoating I've removed was with a rag and some de-greaser that didn't make it flake off - it was more like grunge sliding off, if that makes sense.

One more question:  if you're going to do a rotisserie restoration on a car, do you even need to remove the sound deadened on the belly first?  Or, should you have it blasted off instead?  Or, is there value in removing the undercoating manually first?

Please advise as to pros and cons.  Thanks!

Ruben,

Definitely spend the time to clean the underside to see what you have first. It's one of the biggest mistakes folks make in restoring a car.

The quick and easy way is just strip everything, but then you have to rely on someone else's opinion to determine what colors to put back on during restoration. Unless a car is really rough, there is always evidence of the original colors. These colors vary widely depending upon when (and where) the car was produced.

There is no substitute to restoring the colors and overspray patterns exactly the way you found them.

[J_Speegle]

One more question:  if you're going to do a rotisserie restoration on a car, do you even need to remove the sound deadened on the belly first?  Or, should you have it blasted off instead?  Or, is there value in removing the undercoating manually first?

Easy one considering your stated end goal. DON"T BLAST

As stated you will loose just about all the details  - paint and sealer patterns - that once gone will be lost forever. There isn't a week that goes by that I'm not asked "What color was my floor panes originally?" 

First response is always - Well get under your car, find as many protected areas (front and rear of the undecarrriage often differ), clean them and match the color from those.

Then there is often a long pause at the other end of the phone line. About that time I make a statement "You've already stripped it all away haven't you?"


Its not like your out of luck at that point. We can help and provide some general help from documentation from other cars at or about the same time, same plant but it will never be exactly, in total, what you car had.  Even after all the cleaning and careful documentation we can't find evidence of every last bit but it's allot better that the other options.  Take your time, and the effort the car deserves it now and in the future IMHO

[Shelby_r_b]

As always, GREAT advice from all! Truly, that's what makes this forum so important to all users, especially myself.

And, I was hoping that the concensous would be to strip it by hand, as I want to see what's underneath. It feels like an archeological dig! ...and, I was also hoping that consensus would go the other way, as I know it'll be a lot of work.  But, mainly I wanted what was suggested.

As a teaser, here's what I've found so far. Again, these areas that looked damp (even though the car hasn't been driven for 4 years), and it took almost no effort to clean out these areas. And, if you look really head, I believe you can see some original Wimbledon White overspray as well.

Thanks!

[OldMil]

Liquid Nitrogen works...pop's-off with a tap of a rubber mallet.  (need to have a source - helps if you know engineers at a major tire company ;-)  )

Or, bring the car to my place (Northern Wisconsin) in February...no need for liquid nitrogen    Good luck...
Jack

[Side-Oilers]

My KR (original California-dealer car) didn't have much/any undercoating. Was relatively easy to get to the red-oxide underbelly with just a few days' of clean-up.

On the '68 Shelbys, was undercoating (meaning the Ziebart type stuff) only a dealer add-on option?   

What was applied at the factory?

How about the other years?

San Jose vs Metuchen differences? 

Thanks!

[J_Speegle]

My KR (original California-dealer car) didn't have much/any undercoating. Was relatively easy to get to the red-oxide underbelly with just a few days' of clean-up.

On the '68 Shelbys, was undercoating (meaning the Ziebart type stuff) only a dealer add-on option?   
What was applied at the factory?
How about the other years?
San Jose vs Metuchen differences? 

We often use the terms "sound deadener" (factory applied) and "undercoating" (dealer applied) to describe the two products and make it easier to discuss

Sound deadener (depending on where it was applied) was done at different stages of the assembly. Once prior to exterior painting (interior, trunk and rear wheel well) and after (when the car was just about finished) for regular Mustangs

The floor section of the car (often the focus of dealer or aftermarket undercoating) was not done at the assembly plants in 68.

During the following year, cars with deluxe interior (Grande & Mach I for example) and a certain model, received an application of sound deadener late in the car's build but it didn't typically cover not nearly as much of the surface or areas you find on an undercoated car.

[Side-Oilers]

Great info, thanks!

[6s2020]

The effort taken along with the right method of cleaning up the underbody can have its rewards, such as the the all original sealers and paint finishes on 6S2020s underbody.

Mind you 2020 did not have any after market deadeners , and sat indoors undisturbed for 35yrs

Just truck wash and wax and grease remover did the trick.

As was stated some fine overspray mist may have come off but not a lot IMO (photo flash hides a lot of the mist)

Given the result i will take these original finishes over repro finishes any day.

http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=444.0

scroll down for pics

[Shelby_r_b]

The effort taken along with the right method of cleaning up the underbody can have its rewards, such as the the all original sealers and paint finishes on 6S2020s underbody.

Mind you 2020 did not have any after market deadeners , and sat indoors undisturbed for 35yrs

Just truck wash and wax and grease remover did the trick.

As was stated some fine overspray mist may have come off but not a lot IMO (photo flash hides a lot of the mist)

Given the result i will take these original finishes over repro finishes any day.

http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=444.0

scroll down for pics

VERY nice!  I didn't realize that you had cleaned the belly yourself, as I' saw those pictures before. 

Thanks for sharing! 

[1690]

The effort taken along with the right method of cleaning up the underbody can have its rewards, such as the the all original sealers and paint finishes on 6S2020s underbody.

Mind you 2020 did not have any after market deadeners , and sat indoors undisturbed for 35yrs

Just truck wash and wax and grease remover did the trick.

As was stated some fine overspray mist may have come off but not a lot IMO (photo flash hides a lot of the mist)

Given the result i will take these original finishes over repro finishes any day.

http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=444.0

scroll down for pics

What is truck wash?  Also, which wax and grease remover?  Thanks for the recommendations.

My underside was painted semi-gloss in the mid-70's, but it is starting to flake off, and I can see the red primer coming through.

[J_Speegle]

Also, which wax and grease remover?  Thanks for the recommendations.

You may have issues since not all brands and types of wax and grease removers are legal to use or purchase in your area. Just a consideration for many

Remember to always have plenty of air movement in the space you used any of these products in. Better safe than sorry.

[6s2020]

^^^^^^ +1 on using in well ventilated areas and if need be wear a cartridge type mask , not a paper mask.

The effort taken along with the right method of cleaning up the underbody can have its rewards, such as the the all original sealers and paint finishes on 6S2020s underbody.

Mind you 2020 did not have any after market deadeners , and sat indoors undisturbed for 35yrs

Just truck wash and wax and grease remover did the trick.

As was stated some fine overspray mist may have come off but not a lot IMO (photo flash hides a lot of the mist)

Given the result i will take these original finishes over repro finishes any day.

http://www.saacforum.com/index.php?topic=444.0

scroll down for pics

What is truck wash?  Also, which wax and grease remover?  Thanks for the recommendations.

My underside was painted semi-gloss in the mid-70's, but it is starting to flake off, and I can see the red primer coming through.

Truck Wash CT18 is a Chemtech product here in OZ. any good heavy duty vehicle wash should be safe on all surfaces. It will remove dirt and grime only.

For grease and oil build up you have to be careful with degreasers as they can stain/streak the surface.

Thats why i used wax an grease remover , trying not to let it dry before wiping clean and after scraping of deposits with a Plastic spatula only, not metal ever.

Painters Turps (turpentine) will do the same and be safe on paint surfaces we are dealing with. and unless you soaked your car in it should not hurt original sealers to short exposures.

Main thing is always try the gentlest product/method first, check the result.

Deadners are a tedious job to remove with no damage. even a heat gun and plastic scraper can work in skilled hands, just don't have the turps any where near while trying.