What is this rear end from

[shelbydoug]

Nice upgrade to a 65 mustang. Why would you want to change it?

The parking brake is unique and many can't get it to work right. They just give up on it. It's simple but tricky.

If you notice, the PB cables are not connected to the levers.

[SCOTTGTK]

Thanks Poor Ron, Shelbydoug, BryanT and 98SVT.... great info as usual... at the end of the day... good questions BryanT... my original thought was to get this as close as possible to a true GT350, thus the larger drum in the rear....nothing wrong with the disc as a whole but I was not a fan of the proportioning valve located in the cabin on the drive shaft tunnel. I believe I can remedy that.

My follow up question... does anyone have a reccomendation for a disc set up for the rear should I want to replace what I have there short of a rebuild?  Thank you all for the feedback.... it's been terribly helpful!

Scott

[SCOTTGTK]

Shelbydoug, I was under the impression the parking brake would not be able to be used due to the disc set up I have currently? The cables are not connected to the levers, you are correct.Can in fact the parking brake be set up with the disc application I have?

[TA Coupe]

Lots of discussions brake conversions use that setup. I have it on my 5.0/5spd 92 Ranger and it's hooked up.

       Roy

[SCOTTGTK]

Really? Was there anything "special" to hook it up?

[shelbydoug]

Shelbydoug, I was under the impression the parking brake would not be able to be used due to the disc set up I have currently? The cables are not connected to the levers, you are correct.Can in fact the parking brake be set up with the disc application I have?

I have the exact system installed in my '68 GT350 and I have the PB connected to the original cable system in the car. So I don't understand why anyone would claim that you cannot?

You do need the Versaille's cables connected to the levers.


I found an additional benefit of using the Versailles rear housing in that it is 2 inches narrower then the Mustang banjo. What that meant to me is that I fit 295-50-15 tires within the rear fenders using original 15" Shelby 10 spokes. Many don't notice that simply because those tires look stock. I would not have been able to do that with the original rear. That one has been sitting on my shop floor for 40 years. It's there so long I don't even notice it anymore.


The Versaille PB does not work by applying heavy pressure to the levers. There are three balls, from ball bearings, that when you move the lever go up inclined ramps that push the piston against the pads.

The tricky part is getting the handle under the dash synchronized to that movement. That adjustment is made under the car where the original Mustang cable from that handle connects to the cable running to the rear. There is a threaded stud there that you need to play with to get the pre-load correct and synchronized with the travel of the levers.

The levers only move something like an inch or so.

It is very different then what others expect and they get easily frustrated by the adjustment sequence.


Also, as with other Ford brakes, they are self adjusting when you back up the car and stop it by using the brakes and not just letting it roll to a stop.

In the Mustang the parking brake is easier to use with automatic transmissions as a result. The manual transmission cars are more difficult to get to keep in adjustment/ work right with wear on the pads.

As a result of the PB situation, the Versailles gets bad mouthed and many just get taken out and shelved.


In my view of driving these cars for almost 70 years now, the value of the rear brakes is minimal. You can almost drive it without rear brakes so  exactly what the value of the big 2-1/2" rear shoes is, is questionable to me although I never ran the cars like Shelby did in racing with seemingly a suicide death wish attitude?

I am also using the '65 GT350 adjustable proportioning valve and it is set at the stock, as delivered adjustment.


That is just my view from my mountain top and the more that you know me, the more that you will realize how many disagree with me. So be it. It isn't my purpose in life to be the great healer. Screw them.

Some say that I have an attitude problem? I have no idea why? I guess I just look grumpy?

[SCOTTGTK]

Thank you so much Shelbydoug... thhis is really helpful! Sounds like to me I need the versailles cables and some patience as my car is a 4 speed. any particular year cable or are they basically the same?
Also, is your proportioning valve in the engine bay or inside the car? I'm getting the appropriate MC disc/disc) from Cobra automotive and they have an in the bay proportioning valve as well.

[Bob Gaines]

Thank you so much Shelbydoug... thhis is really helpful! Sounds like to me I need the versailles cables and some patience as my car is a 4 speed. any particular year cable or are they basically the same?
Also, is your proportioning valve in the engine bay or inside the car? I'm getting the appropriate MC disc/disc) from Cobra automotive and they have an in the bay proportioning valve as well.

The adjustable proportioning valve that is plumbed so that it sits on the tunnel for easy reach is typically for the track driven oriented car. It allows for easy adjustment for the demands of different tracks environment. The adjustable proportioning valve can be plumbed to be under the hood just as well. Most just set it and forget it so no need to be inside on the tunnel.

[shelbydoug]

You need Versalles cables that go to the levers.

To my knowledge the Mustang part of the system you are connecting to is the same or very, very similar for the Mustangs at least into the '73-4 model year.

You set the handle in the car to where it will be when the brakes are fully applied. Then you set the levers to be on at the calipers. Then you connect the cables together snugging them up to the point that the handle in the cabin keeps itself on.


I put my proportioning valve inside the left front fender and ran -4 Aeroquip teflon lined hose to it. I find that it is more accessible there inside the fender then inside the cabin under the rear seat panel.


I keep looking for a Ford Service bulletin on adjusting the Versailles PB. So far I have not found one so that is a suggestion to me that although "WE" are having issues with it now, there never was when the car was in production?



Just for the sake of discussion here and not necessarily to distract from the issue at hand, I put the "Big Ford?Lincoln/T-bird" front rotors and calipers on my Pantera and put 65-7 Mustang front calipers on the rear of the car.

I didn't neglect my '68. I did the same on it as well.

To make this functional, electric parking brake calipers from the Tesla suddenly came onto the market used and made it possible to have a PB while using that Mustang trans-am braking system. They are electronic and are either on or off. They are easily adaptable to many applications.

So what I am suggesting here, to others that are reading this as tech info, using the 65-7 Mustang front calipers on the rear as done on the Mustang T/A cars has a solution to the lack of PB with it using the Tesla PB unit.


I sympathize with your plight however since being honest, I have been through the Versailles PB several times in order to get it to work right. It was done at a time when there was little or no knowledge readily available so I had to figure it out myself.

In the end, I realized that I had been really just over reacting to it. It is really very simple and once you "get it" no BFD but still folks say it sucks and just chuck it.

To each his own and I suppose being stubborn as Hell has it's advantages sometimes in finding a solution?

[SCOTTGTK]

Thanks Bob... this not being a "track" car and I just don't like the look of the valve right there on the tunnel, I'll locate it in the engine bay, probably where Shelbydoug has his...Thanks shelbydoug as well for this info... I think for now I'll stay away fropm Tesla applications.

I did start to source some versailles cables for parking break.... is there any specific year I should search for?

[shelbydoug]

Thanks Bob... this not being a "track" car and I just don't like the look of the valve right there on the tunnel, I'll locate it in the engine bay, probably where Shelbydoug has his...Thanks shelbydoug as well for this info... I think for now I'll stay away fropm Tesla applications.

I did start to source some versailles cables for parking break.... is there any specific year I should search for?

You would need to look at how the cables are listed aftermarket wise to determine if there is a difference but I would not expect there to be.

I did notice slight differences in hardware on the three that I had. The most significant being the size of the mounting bolts to the flange on the banjo. Mine uses 1/2" bolts. The two others used 3/8". Why there is a difference I can't say but it may simply be differences in the model year or possibly in the application.

Mine is the "heavier duty" of the group and made more sense to keep it as the pick of the litter?


There really isn't any "text" that you can follow on these rears and they really are unique to Fords in that time period.

What transpired later on Mustangs with rear discs I couldn't say. My system is done and doesn't need any additional consideration.


One feature that I do like is that the rotor hat fits over the wheel flange so disassembling it is much easier compared to something like the Pantera where you need to disassemble the entire rear suspension and drive axles to get the rotor off.


It is an excellent design and too many are being dissuaded by others who bad mouth it because they don't understand it.


The question of whether or not the car actually NEEDS rear disc brakes to begin with is another subject. The additional braking should really go in the front with the "Big Lincoln" set up.

After working on other models and makes with rear discs I can really say that I hate all of them. The biggest issue is getting the parking brakes to hold consistently and the pads always seem to squeal no matter what you use on them? By comparison, the Versailles is not that bad at all.

With the big front brakes, In Ford's own words, "it was designed to stop a 7,000 pound car. It is incredible on a 3,000 pound car". I agree.


As far as the location of the valve, lots of things were done on the '65 GT350 initially because they were working under a time handicap to get them out the door. There really is more then one design finalization that became standard on it that could have been better thought out.

[pbf777]

The question of whether or not the car actually NEEDS rear disc brakes to begin with is another subject. The additional braking should really go in the front with the "Big Lincoln" set up.

With the big front brakes, In Ford's own words, "it was designed to stop a 7,000 pound car. It is incredible on a 3,000 pound car".

     Do realize that the subject here is of the Versailles rear disc setup, and that if choosing to bolt up the "Big Lincoln" discs (of this time period) the rear disc setup utilized by the O.E.M. was different, bigger, from an engineering standpoint "sized" to work in conjunction with the larger fronts in order to maintain the appropriate balance bias in the braking function.

     But also, not only for a vehicle of greater overall weight, but of a different chassis and it's manor of reactive function.   

     Scott.

[SCOTTGTK]

Thank you pbf777... for me I'll be sticking with my original Kelsey Hayes rebuilt upfront. My efforts are centered on the rear brakes for now.

Once again, thank you shelbydoug... I appreciate the info and like above, I'll stay with my original disc set up, up front!   

[shelbydoug]

It's a good choice.

[TA Coupe]

This is the rear brake setup that my ranger has which is a little different than yours. I'm also running a 12in Wilwood brake setup in front.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tsb-a114r?rrec=true

      Roy