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Coralsnake Intake manifold discussion

Started by Coralsnake, January 01, 2025, 06:59:47 PM

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98SVT - was 06GT

Very much a which year discussion.
65-67 - CA built
68-69 - MI built
What were the Union rules once assembly moved to Ford. The engines were assembled in the engine plant. What were the union rules on who got to touch them and make changes at the assembly plant? It may have been easier to let the contractor (AO Smith) handle all the changes.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang, 1998 SVT 32V, 1929 Model A Coupe, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

Bob Gaines

Quote from: warwick on January 02, 2025, 05:38:10 PMWe just had a discussion re intake bolts on a 67 GT500 and the 67 GT 500 did not use typical Ford FE intake bolts-so they were not transferred. In addition the Ford bolts are place bolts (ie: locking) and the Grade 5 substitute is not. A little confusing.

(https://www.saac.com/forum/index.php?topic=29106.0)




Unlike the small block GT350 engine the 67 GT500 engine was built with the duel four aluminum intake from the beginning. There were too many steps and parts to handle for a FE intake change which made it impractical to do except build it with with the desired intake from inception.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Bob Gaines

Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on January 02, 2025, 06:15:59 PMVery much a which year discussion.
65-67 - CA built
68-69 - MI built
What were the Union rules once assembly moved to Ford. The engines were assembled in the engine plant. What were the union rules on who got to touch them and make changes at the assembly plant? It may have been easier to let the contractor (AO Smith) handle all the changes.
It is easy to get facts confused in a discussion like this but you have your facts mixed up. If discussing engine then the GT350 engine was OH built 65-68 and Windsor CAN built in 69. If discussing the finished assemblyline plant then 65-67 CA as stated but 68 was NJ not MI .  69 was MI as stated.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

Road Reptile

Hi Again,
Looks like we now have 2 different engines being discussed. Maybe some have forgotten the DUAL carb full size Fords or the 3 2 BARREL engines built by Ford in 1963..
One other point is they all ran off the assembly line. Ford was and is strict about the
Quality of any parts supplied by an outside company, and as Jeff points out they would not get in a warranty situation with an engine build. A.O. Smith was still after Shelby over unpaid work from 1968 so 1 more reason to doubt they did any engine work for 69
Just my 2 cents
R.R.

Special Ed

There are 6 351-w 4v engine tag codes and no 428- 8v engine tag codes but several 427 - 8v engine tag codes.

Bob Gaines

Quote from: Special Ed on January 02, 2025, 09:17:12 PMThere are 6 351-w 4v engine tag codes and no 428- 8v engine tag codes but several 427 - 8v engine tag codes.
The 428 -8V engine was identified by code 400,401,402,403,410,411,412,413.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

98SVT - was 06GT

#21
Quote from: Bob Gaines on January 02, 2025, 07:14:58 PM..... the finished assemblyline plant then 65-67 CA as stated but 68 was NJ not MI .  69 was MI as stated.
They were sub-assembled in NJ and finished at AO Smith in MI.

Quote from: Road Reptile on January 02, 2025, 08:34:58 PMA.O. Smith was still after Shelby over unpaid work from 1968 so 1 more reason to doubt they did any engine work for 69

AO was not after Shelby. They were after Ford. Ford wholly owned Shelby Automotive. They took over all production and trademarks around August 1967. Shelby was in the ads but he had no input. His Shelby Racing Co had a contract to run in TransAm through the end of the 69 series at which time his presence at Ford ended. By 1969 The GT350 and GT500 both got off the shelf Ford engines.
AO Smith had been building Corvettes for years and was fully capable of doing any modifications to the cars that Ford requested. I've heard at one point they threatened to crush the remaining 69s left on their lot if Ford didn't remove them.
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang, 1998 SVT 32V, 1929 Model A Coupe, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

Special Ed

The Ford MPC list i looked at had 428 4v code 400 401 404 405 410 411  and the rest of 428 codes were cj scj but not sure when that list was printed .

Bob Gaines

Quote from: Special Ed on January 02, 2025, 11:23:17 PMThe Ford MPC list i looked at had 428 4v code 400 401 404 405 410 411  and the rest of 428 codes were cj scj but not sure when that list was printed .
And it is missing 402,403,412,413 too. The MPC is typically mostly right but it has been known to have discrepancies and missing information also. One example are the missing codes IMO. That is if thermactor and or A/C are not important enough.  I have never heard of what 404 and 405 are as it relates to a 67 Shelby engine.
Bob Gaines,Shelby Enthusiast, Shelby Collector , Shelby Concours judge SAAC,MCA,Mid America Shelby

shelbymann1970

Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on January 02, 2025, 06:15:59 PMVery much a which year discussion.
65-67 - CA built
68-69 - MI built
What were the Union rules once assembly moved to Ford. The engines were assembled in the engine plant. What were the union rules on who got to touch them and make changes at the assembly plant? It may have been easier to let the contractor (AO Smith) handle all the changes.
AS a UAW worker in the automotive field in Mi since 1978 there would be no union "rules" affecting how this would have been done either way. There would be no "lines of demarcation" to these jobs.
Shelby owner since 1984
SAAC member since 1990
1970 GT350 4 speed(owned since 1985).
  MCA gold 2003(not anymore)
1969 Mach1 428SCJ 4 speed R-code (owned since 2013)
"2nd" owner of 68 GT500 #1626

crossboss

A Shelby buddy and I speaking about this very subject this morning. Answer: "Whats the difference, who cares" was his reply...gotta agree. Fact is, IT was done.
Past owned Shelby's:
1968 GT-350--Gold
1970 GT-500--#3129--Grabber Orange.
Current lifelong projects:
1969 Mustang Fastback/FOX chassis, 5 speed, 4 wheel discs, with a modern Can-Am 494 (Boss 429), Kaase heads, intake with a 1425 cfm 'B' Autolite Inline carb, ala Trans-Am style
1968/70 Olds 442 W-30

gt350shelb

the logistics of getting cars from factory to shelby or ao smith .  they had to run . and its not un realistic  to think ford could assemble the engines with correct intakes  and get them to the assembly line . thats what build sheets were for. (and still are) .  and the stories of carbs being stolen off trains and storage lots  would lean that way. all those cars in lax photos with no hoods have intakes and carbs and airfilters  before they  were modified.
Some where some one is driving their collector car for the last time but they don't know it . Drive your car every time like it could be the last memory of it .

98SVT - was 06GT

Quote from: gt350shelb on January 04, 2025, 10:22:01 PMall those cars in lax photos with no hoods have intakes and carbs and airfilters  before they  were modified.
Didn't SA at some point send the aluminum accessories and carbs to Ford for installation in the 65-67 period?
Previous owner 6S843 - GT350H & 68 GT500 Convert #135.
Mine: GT1 Mustang, 1998 SVT 32V, 1929 Model A Coupe, Wife's: 2004 Tbird
Member since 1975 - priceless

J_Speegle

Quote from: 98SVT - was 06GT on January 04, 2025, 10:33:20 PMDidn't SA at some point send the aluminum accessories and carbs to Ford for installation in the 65-67 period?

Don't know that SA sent them but they got to the engine plant for installation there during that period. We do have copies of documentation of that as shown in a long older thread on the subject here on the site
Jeff Speegle- Mustang & Shelby detail collector, ConcoursMustang.com mentor :) and Judge