Impact of non-original motor on value

[hurlbird]

I'm going to sell my 68 350 4 speed convertible this spring. Original motor is gone. I do have a proper date code that would go with it. Any thoughts on the impact on value due to the non-original motor? I'd like to inform my listing. Thanks
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[Coralsnake]

Typically 10-15% is normal.

[Bill Collins]

My recent experience is more like 15-20% but the other factor is that the "investment" buyers won't want it at all and having the extra date coded engine won't mean anything to them.

The car will likely sell to a traditional enthusiast who likes it for the color and being a 4 speed and will drive it. But these people seldom pay the longest dollar.

[hurlbird]

thanks for the input! -John

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Typically 10-15% is normal.

Which is why so many people recreate the "original" engine. By this time they were using regular engines with dressup parts. A partial VIN was stamped on the block behind the intake.
So with the right casting numbers in the right date range and some stamps your car will increase in value 15-20 grand. There isn't even a legal problem (only ethical) since this isn't the VIN used for vehicle ID.

Ferrari will even go so far as to cast all new blocks and other serialized components for cars that they restore inhouse.
THE MARANELLO OFFICINA CLASSICHE
For critical operations on Ferrari Classiche, Maranello is the point of reference, where special work and structural repairs are performed with the utmost care. The presence of the original technical archives allows the Ferrari team to reproduce components that can no longer be sourced, preserving the historic value of each car.

[vtgt500]

interesting thread with very knowledgeable input.  Curious, at BJ and Mecum auctions do buyers closely scrutinize a restored automobile?  Having toured the cars at a BJ auction about 25 years ago, there was no way to get under a car to see what being bought, or even hear it run.  Got the impression buyers were focused on a fresh paint job and underhood detailing.  Bizarre.

In my world, I'd want to make compression and vacuum tests, then a highway road trip. Noting a stable coolant temp. Then a lift inspection for leaks and collision repairs. Block originality is pretty low on the list.  An honest to God, original, pristine, side oiler upgrade being the holy grail.  But that's just me.

[shelbymann1970]

Since cars can vary in price greatly how do we really know if the hit is 15-20, 20-25? I have sold over the decades many non matching numbers cars and got what I would say is top dollar for many of them as in if it had the original engine it wouldn't have brought more. My last was my 68 GT350 painted the wrong color, the whole drivetrain wasn't original. Engine was date coded correct only because the prior owner happened to buy the engine and it was a match for the car. Black with red stripes. I watched many 68 GT350 FBs sell back in early 2013 and talked to some well known sellers of Shelbys what the going rate would be for a non concours nice driver. I got 75K for it. The color with stripes sold the car. My drag pack GT500 70 FB non original engine. Color changed and I got top dollar for it when it was sold. As a matter of fact in the early 2000s the price it sold for at BJ was the highest at that time for a 69-70 FB 500.It was already a 12 year resto at that point. Then I remember Milt Robson's 71 HEMI Cuda vert setting records(NOM). Then a certain L88 67 Vette way back when. My point? It is subjective and it could go either way depending on the car and buyers at the time. Now B9 buyers I see a distinctive premium for original engines. I'd rather have good bones and a correct non original engine than a numbers matching "Frankenstein".

[NickG350]

interesting thread with very knowledgeable input.  Curious, at BJ and Mecum auctions do buyers that closely scrutinize a restored automobile?  Having toured the cars at a BJ auction about 25 years ago, there was no way to get under a car to see what being bought, or even hear it run.  Got the impression buyers were focused on a fresh paint job and underhood detailing.  Bizarre.

In my world I'd want to make compression and vacuum tests, then a highway road trip. Noting a stable coolant temp. Then a lift inspection for leaks and collision repairs. Block originality is pretty low on the list.  An honest to God, original, pristine, side oiler upgrade being the holy grail.  But that's just me.

I agree. I'm not sure why an original motor matters. What does it prove? Shelby did not think his cars would last 10-20 years yet alone 60 years. They were meant to be driven hard and raced, and because of that, original motors were sacrificed. My '67 350 did not have an original motor but everything was date coded correctly My '66 has an original motor, and I don't look at it being more special. I think the Corvette guys created all of this craziness.

As long as it's an era "correct" motor with the correct parts, that's all I look for.

[98SVT - was 06GT]

Within the past decade the market for Shelbys has moved beyond - I gotta have one to drive to I need the best for my collection. Look at how many auctions now include restoration paperwork and judging sheets that are basically detailed reports from the experts who have worked on and crawled under and around the car.

[hurlbird]

All great feedback for me. Thank you. I don't care about numbers matching myself, but if someone is buying for investment purposes then its important. But noted already, those buyers would not be interested in non- matching most likely. I want to be realistic about value however. Quite frankly the reason I am looking to sell it is it is worth too much for me to enjoy and I don't have the passion for it. I have several classic cars all of which i drive often and am more relaxed at cruises etc. They don't draw the same crowd as the GT 350 but I'm good with not having that. I can't shake my Pontiac roots! BTW im starting to get involved in 30's Hot Rodding. This is a lot of fun with an awesome following due to the custom nature of the cars... Great people. Thanks all!

[98SVT - was 06GT]

..... the reason I am looking to sell it is it is worth too much for me to enjoy ......im starting to get involved in 30's Hot Rodding. This is a lot of fun with an awesome following due to the custom nature of the cars...

Same reason I lost interest in finishing mine. I built other Mustangs to drive and race without the risk of losing big money. I too got into the 30s stuff. Check out your local Model A clubs. I hate to say it but these guys are dying off at a rapid rate and their families are dumping their collections for pennies on the dollar. 4 cylinder Bangers seems to be the way to go. Flatheads have gotten too pricey. I'm building a B engine for my Coupe. 7:1 head, Winfield cam and dual strombergs. I've also got an OHV B engine that still holds an Australian record. Yes that's a pair of 500 cfm Holley 2 bbl carbs. You'd like it, it's got Pontiac rods. It ran 133 at El Mirage in a roadster.

[shelbymann1970]

All great feedback for me. Thank you. I don't care about numbers matching myself, but if someone is buying for investment purposes then its important. But noted already, those buyers would not be interested in non- matching most likely. I want to be realistic about value however. Quite frankly the reason I am looking to sell it is it is worth too much for me to enjoy and I don't have the passion for it. I have several classic cars all of which i drive often and am more relaxed at cruises etc. They don't draw the same crowd as the GT 350 but I'm good with not having that. I can't shake my Pontiac roots! BTW im starting to get involved in 30's Hot Rodding. This is a lot of fun with an awesome following due to the custom nature of the cars... Great people. Thanks all!

Why not come to a conclusion what you would like to get for your car then contact BaT or another auction venue and see what reserve they would let you put on it. If it meets what you would want auction it. It cost 99 bucks. You will have a lot more people looking at the car than you would ever have selling it on your own. I've also see Hemmings and ACC Auctions but not sure on their costs or rules. Good luck.

[hurlbird]

that's the plan in April.

[Royce Peterson]

I think the original motor is more important in a more valuable car. Let's face it, the 1968 GT350 is the least desirable Shelby. A more desirable Shelby would be the 1967 GT500 - if one of those has its original 428 it is unusual because most of them were blown up long ago. Maybe in that case it would affect value - most folks would prefer a roller motor 347 in a '68 GT350. At least I would. 

[Coralsnake]

What it really boils down to is the buyer.

If BaT is any indication, most buyers think its important, but really dont know how to tell.

My personal feeling is the vast majority of people dont place that much importance on it.

Its an overrated topic and is probably really only important to a small percentage of sales